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Data Trails PDF is officially out! (SR5 Matrix Sourcebook)

It's not.

There's some neat stuff in it, don't get me wrong. A couple of cool programs to run, some neat Commlink upgrades available (add Sleaze to your commlink for the win), the return of skinlink for technomancers (at the outrageous cost of an echo), AI character metatype is neat, but a bit broken.

If you're playing a Decker, or new to SR, this is a great book.

If you're playing a Technomancer, or looking for some hard rules for hacking cyberwear or similar rules that are lacking, don't hold your breath.

No fixes for Techno's not being able to PAN/WAN, a bunch of less than optional echoes that do little to nothing, some "neat" qualities, but overall a waste of text, etc...

Instead of putting in rules, fixes, or clarifications for the other half of the hacking sub-type (i.e. Technomancers), they've decided to put out a Technomancer Ebook (think Shadow Spells).

I'm so disappointed.... It's almost not worth the money, except that I'm my group's librarian, and if I'm missing a source book for a game I play, I get very agitated.
 
Pollution, don't worry, according to kincaid (one of the editors of data trails, speaking on the shadowrun forums) there is a specific technomancer splatbook in the works. Why they would choose to not just release it all at once is beyond me, but it is coming.

EDIT- Completely missed the part where you talk about it, never mind. The thing that bothers me is that, like in the case of shadow spells, there will be an important rule book that you just can't get a physical copy of.
 
From the sounds of it on the forums they hadn't even decided to do the TM stuff until after Data Trails was into editing. So if they had put that stuff in DT and made it longer, we'd be waiting probably another year for it.
 
Yeah, I mean, it's not like we waited almost 2 years at this point, and leaving out 1/2 the Matrix Archetypes to put into some half-assed eBook only publication isn't a big deal right?

And, add to that they waited until DT ACTUALLY CAME OUT before asking for TM input from the community for said eBook, meaning it'll either be another year, or be rushed and complete crap isn't a big deal, right?

Also adding that they filled 185 with huge font (10-12pt), tons of art, wasted space for over-bordered sidebars, and ignored at least half the questions we've been asking since the game came out isn't so bad, right?

I swear to Nuffle, Catalyst has gone from one of the best RPG companies out there to one of the worst in a single publication run.

Let's look at the difference between DT and Unwired:

In Unwired, you had a huge section detailing PANs and WANs. None in DT.
In Unwired, you had a great amount of information on software suites, programming new software, and even piracy. None in DT.
In Unwired, you had a whole chapter on Technomancers. In DT, you have a few new Echoes and a couple of CF's.
In Unwired, you had a whole section dedicated to Resonance. In DT, it's mentioned.
In Unwired, you had a great deal of information about how to hack with stats and examples, including new concepts like dummy nodes and hacking your lifestyle. In DTs, they talk about it.
In Unwired, you had a bunch of new Matrix enemies/Allies, IC, Sprites, Groups, Matrix Critters, etc... In DT, you have some IC, and a couple (about 1/2) of groups.
In Unwired, you had some really neat fluff that helped you shape your character, and your world with some stats and rules to back that stuff up (Resonance Realms were light on rules, but had the basics). In DT, there's a HUGE chapter on Foundations, but few rules and missing flowcharts.

Shadowrun 5th edition is broken. It's not that there aren't the books to back up some of the stuff, but rather that the developers haven't actually codified what needs rules, hasn't kept to a timely release schedule, has moved to a smaller print book + eBook supplement schedule (and not a timely one at that), and WORSE has lied to the community over and over about what's coming and when. "We have a question about Technomancers and the Matrix," the community asked. "It's all coming in Data Trails," they responded.

Now they're telling us that in ADDITION to shelling out for DT, we're now expected to pick up another eBook on Technomancers to answer the questions and fix things that we've been harping about for the last 2 years. Oh, and it'll come out "soon". You know, once we've started actually writing the thing. "What did you want in there again?"

If SR4a was compatible with SR5, or there was a conversion chart, or SOMETHING, I'd be all about patience. But it's not.

SR5 is VASTLY inferior to SR4 in every respect.

By this time last run, we had all our splat books and a ton of modules/missions.

For F*'s sake, there are only FIVE missions not in Sprawl/Firing Line available. SR Missions is a joke, people don't play it because there's nothing to PLAY. My group finished the ENTIRE line of missions and haven't picked it up because it's only adding one mission every couple months at best.

Pathfinder Society is VASTLY superior because they ACTUALLY PUT SHIT OUT. There's a new scenario every month, and books come out left and right. I get that Catalyst is smaller than Paizo (no duh), but the support for their own game just isn't there.

SR is my first and favorite RPG. And I really feel like Bull and his ilk have ruined it. I'm not bitching about the rule changes (though there are a few wtf areas), I'm pissed that we don't have resources where we need them, and whenever we get them, they're half assed and incomplete.

Grrrrrrr
 
I dunno, maybe it's that we don't play technomancers... But we've been having a blast with SR5 in this neck of the woods, and enjoying each book that comes out. And I've been running since 2e.

Only thing we've been clawing at has been getting a good rigger book.
 
It's got some complicated stuff (AI PCs), So I wouldn't hold my breath.

Also, they don't like giving timelines due to the unpredictable nature of it.

Advice from past precedence would be put it out of mind... it'll seem to get done a lot quicker. :D
 
I'm still waiting for the shifter races and alternate chargen systems myself. Still given what they did there its entirely possible we'll get the gear/qualities etc and then when they've sorted out the AI's and other more complex things add those at a later date for free if you bought the data trails package.
 
Pollution said:
If you're playing a Technomancer don't hold your breath.
Click to expand...

What are you on about? Did you read all of the Technomancer setting material in there? Its like the last third of the book.

Plus, the book has the Leroy Jenkins and Nerd Rage qualities, its worth it for that alone. lol

Pollution said:
Pathfinder Society is VASTLY superior because they ACTUALLY PUT SHIT OUT. There's a new scenario every month, and books come out left and right. I get that Catalyst is smaller than Paizo (no duh), but the support for their own game just isn't there.

SR is my first and favorite RPG. And I really feel like Bull and his ilk have ruined it. I'm not bitching about the rule changes (though there are a few wtf areas), I'm pissed that we don't have resources where we need them, and whenever we get them, they're half assed and incomplete.

Grrrrrrr
Click to expand...

Dude, chill out. If you "finished all the missions" you could always use the random mission generator they give you. Your GM could make up runs. Or, you could just play something else. I don't mind SR5e, honestly. I enjoy playing it, and my group has had none of these problems. I think you are just projecting anger onto it and see faults where there are none.

Is it perfect?

No.

Should I have rules for concealing pop out guns on vehicles in the core rule book?

Yes!

Was the game session ruined because we couldn't find them, of course not. If you love Pathfinder so much, play it. If you love shadowrun, play it. But blaming the lack of the ability to play and enjoy the game on what (seems) like an unwilling to commit the time into planning sessions or randomly generating them seems a bit bitter and entitled to me man.

Its not like you're playing Shadowrun: Dragonfall and when you're done... thats it. Game Over. And its not really a contest, so what... piazo is pumping out books and Catalyst isn't giving you the rules you need. We've been playing for six sessions now and we havent need ANY of the rules you said were in 4E that are not in 5E and our last two missions were matrix-based.

I'm not picking on you or having a go, just feels a bit like you're angry at something and so finding reasons to validate that anger rather than making a fair assessment of the material.

Plus, if 4E was better there is NOTHING stopping you from playing it man. Stick with the games you love. Those old books don't automatically become useless just because something new comes out. If they do what you want them to do and give you what you want, just play 4E. Honestly, theyre both pretty compatible with one another anyway. It shouldn't take you longer than it does to squint to back covert the material.
 
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Polecat said:
What are you on about? Did you read all of the Technomancer setting material in there? Its like the last third of the book.
Click to expand...

Read it again. If you're talking about foundation stuff....that's available to every hacker in the game.

Techno's got a few qualities (former Otaku is neat-ish), a couple of CF's (most are not worth the investment) and a couple of Echoes (all are pretty piss-poor, and one is a rewrite of the core book Mind over Machine one with a different name, i.e. non stacking).

Techno's are completely ignored crunch wise. There's like all of 3 things in that book that benefit/add to the Techno's arsenal. That's all I was saying. Really, it's not worth it if you're a technomancer. It's Decker or bust (as is usual in 5th ed).

Plus, the book has the Leroy Jenkins and Nerd Rage qualities, its worth it for that alone. lol
Click to expand...

I'll give you that the qualities are "neat". But compared to Unwired...the book sucks. No emotitoys, no rules on hacking lifestyle, no rules for PAN/WAN/Hosts, nothing "new" other than AI and Foundation (a foundation run looks neat as far as deep runs go, but most groups will never do them).

Dude, chill out. If you "finished all the missions" you could always use the random mission generator they give you. Your GM could make up runs. Or, you could just play something else. I don't mind SR5e, honestly. I enjoy playing it, and my group has had none of these problems. I think you are just projecting anger onto it and see faults where there are none.
Click to expand...

It's not that easy, chummer. SR Missions (like PFS, but for SR) REQUIRES that you ONLY play the missions for that group. Nothing outside the support for Missions counts. My group finished all the missions save one last year. We haven't gotten together since because these guys WANT to play their characters at cons and stuff. Can't do that if you play a home game.

You HAVE to only play Sprawl Wilds, SRM-05-01 through X (whatever they're on now) and the other book with 4 missions. There's like 15, and that's all there are. If I run my group through a homebrew or "Random" mission, it doesn't count and they can't keep the karma/cash for "Missions!"

It's a shitty setup is what I'm saying.

(...the rest...
Click to expand...

I LOVE SR, but from what I've seen of SR5 and what's been said about it.... I'll stick to SR4 for fun, and not get to play my favorite kind of character (Otaku/Technomancer) since there's no support for them in SR5. I'm pissed about the lack of support for MOST classes in the game. I'm pissed that they have this GREAT IP and they keep fucking it up with shit support and crap products.

Data Trails as a Core Supplement is more than lacking, it's pathetic and a money grab.

The Art takes up too much space, the sidebars are HUGE, and the text is 12pt font. They have a REALLY bad word count for the money.

If I could get my money back, I would in a heartbeat.

IDK, maybe it'll get better...but we had twice the books in 4th ed. by this point and they were Crunch and Flavor heavy. 5th ed. feels like they don't care about their own product.

It's the way I feel. Again, I can play homebrew, but not with the same Missions legal characters. And there's no support for it. There's a TON of gamers in my city, and ZERO Missions games other than the ones we ran. Nobody supports it because Catalyst doesn't.

It's sad.
 
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That makes sense, and to be fair, I honestly had no idea that there were "con legal laws" that prevent you from playing characters and using them at cons. Makes sense though I suppose, still.. seems a bit silly.
 
Pollution said:
It's not that easy, chummer. SR Missions (like PFS, but for SR) REQUIRES that you ONLY play the missions for that group. Nothing outside the support for Missions counts. My group finished all the missions save one last year. We haven't gotten together since because these guys WANT to play their characters at cons and stuff. Can't do that if you play a home game.

You HAVE to only play Sprawl Wilds, SRM-05-01 through X (whatever they're on now) and the other book with 4 missions. There's like 15, and that's all there are. If I run my group through a homebrew or "Random" mission, it doesn't count and they can't keep the karma/cash for "Missions!"
Click to expand...

You are correct, there are basically 15 (18 exactly) SRM Chicago missions availble right now for a non-Catalyst Demo Team member (see http://forums.shadowruntabletop.com/index.php?topic=17971.0 for a full list.) However, if you can convince your local GM to join the Catalyst Demo Team, there are an additional 31 missions that might be available to run.

Don't forget that if you run the missions yourself, you can still get credit as if one of your characters had played the mission.

Let me know if you want more details.

- The Masked Ferret
 
TheMaskedFerret said:
You are correct, there are basically 15 (18 exactly) SRM Chicago missions availble right now for a non-Catalyst Demo Team member (see http://forums.shadowruntabletop.com/index.php?topic=17971.0 for a full list.) However, if you can convince your local GM to join the Catalyst Demo Team, there are an additional 31 missions that might be available to run.

Don't forget that if you run the missions yourself, you can still get credit as if one of your characters had played the mission.

Let me know if you want more details.

- The Masked Ferret
Click to expand...

I applied 2 years ago.

Followed up a couple of times.

Gave up.

The response was zero, the interest was none.

I live in frickin Indianapolis. Home to GenCon.... You would think that they'd want ONE agent in town, but nope, none.

And if there is one, he's doing a shitty job, since there are a few SR games in town that I know of, but NOBODY runs Missions! around here. There's no firebase. I started the first "unofficial" firebase in Indy 2 years ago, got about 20 people interested in the game in that time, but had nothing to run.

My core 3 players and I said, "Fuck it! We'll go back to 4th and run those missions."

Zero support from Catalyst.

I'm probably so bitter because, again, SR was my FIRST RPG, I LOVED it. I followed it for years. Paid for the $50 3rd edition book, got all the devs to sign it at Gencon that year. Bought EVERY supplement that's ever come out (I'm a collector, it's a curse). And with 5th...I can't keep caring. They screw up every 5 minutes.
 
Deleted post, there is an entire second page that I did not see. My post was to something on page 1.
 
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