Custom Outsider Race: See In Darkness vs unremovable Darkvision

[Doki-Chan]

since it has pre-reqs of None, shouldn't it only cost an extra 2 RP to get on top of the basic Darkvision, as you could, say, want a custom Tiefling with See In Darkness?

(currently having a Hero Labs moment is all... )

It's ok if you build a Humanoid with straight up SiD (but then technically there are certain feats off limits etc.),

but if you choose the Outsider(native) then you effectively get Darkvision costed into that initial 3RP... and then SiD cost 4RP on top of that, for the same effect as the Humanoid just got for more RP!

This is also the case if you want to start with 120' Dv as well.

I'd like to be able to select a level of vision for a custom Outsider that, say, didn't cost me twice.

Thoughts? Or am I missing something - I know I can add it on top manually and my GM and me agree it's only X-RP spent instead of X+4 RP, but it's a tad ... inelegant, as it should be swappable, not cumulative?

 

[ShadowChemosh]

Can you re-word that above into a question. You seem to have written stream of thoughts out. Unless someone else can decipher your question I don't know what your asking.

Also when you say "custom" race are you talking about the Race Builder from the ARG or you building the new race in the Editor?

Thanks!

 

[Farling]

The Advanced Race Guide says that "See in Darkness" costs 4 RP and has no prerequisites.

Hero Lab has implemented this.

Perhaps the question is better asked on the paizo.com forums if you disagree with the cost.

"See in Darkness" is very different from "Darkvision", since Darkvision only gives you black-and-white vision out to 60ft, whereas "See in Darkness" has no range limit and doesn't restrict you to black-and-white either.

 

[Doki-Chan]

Hi again, I suppose I'm trying to ask: if you build a "custom race: Advanced, then pick Outsider(Native) using either ARG or HL and you want See in Darkness (4RP - no prereq), why should I have to pay the hidden cost for Darkvision (2RP) - which is currently built into the 3 points for an outsider(Native) ?

A custom humanoid/monstrous/other with See in Darkness gains no benefit by also buying Darkvision on top of See in Darkness, so you would never buy it...

If you want to build an outsider (i.e. have the Hold Person/Enlarge Person immunity apply) with Only See In Darkness then I should not have to pay a total of 7RP; I should be able to remove Darkvision and apply S.i.D. for a total of 5RP?
Basically, if you are supposed to be able to totally customize a race, from the ground up, then Senses should be separate from Race? (I realize they are mostly, and if you want blind-sight/See in Darkness, then I can see the reason of buying separately, but in this case, why would you ever want both at the same time?)

(I have asked on Paizo and people have said Homebrew. if your GM is ok with it: i.e.

"If you're in the rare position where this matters (like your GM said "generate an advanced mutant member of a standard race with N extra RP") then yes, I agree it's pretty clearly an upgrade for which you should pay only the difference. Just realize that you're firmly in homebrew territory even to be asking the question...."
)

 

[Aaron]

Isn't there an adjustment for adding X number of extra points? You could use that to add 2, thus negating those spent on getting the redundant darkvision.

 

[Doki-Chan]

Hi, it's ok I learnt why it might be more appropriate to have both on the Paizo site:

"One (rarely important) addendum: See in Darkness is a supernatural ability, whereas racial Darkvision is Ex. This means an anti-magic field or a dead-magic zone shuts down See in Darkness entirely but leaves Darkvision untouched. So if you're in the odd position where such situations are common you may actually still want Darkvision."

*sigh*, back to the drawing board...