Chaos Daemons Roster Update

[Protowolf]

Now that the entire Codex has been updated for the Chaos Daemons will the Roster updates take effect for the Army Builder program also, and if so when. Thank you.

 

[morkalg]

I believe there is a one month wait from when the Codex is released before the Army Builder files are updated.

I'm waiting on it too...

 

[jlong05]

Simple to answer. When it's done. Not sooner, not later.

 

[darkvector]

So why the hostility to the simple question i know that its all there written down as to when and how long and that the poster should have knowen but hey its probably a youngster.
Im sure the poster was only asking in good faith and didnt need to recive the rant on taking your money. Im sure you could have made a seperate post about it to vent your own fury on it. Lets Face it if even one company goes bust then the hobby dies the death of a thousand cuts lets hope Gw see the error of their greed, hell i hate paying double what the rest of the world does for my hobby but i still love it.....

 

[Mr_Rose]

What "hostility" and what "rant" are you talking about?

Just making up stuff then accusing people of it is bad form, y'know?

 

[darkvector]

The tersly worded reply to the first poster and the rant about Gw ie the only thing gw is intrested in is your money. If you cant see the negativity in both then you should take a second look. Im not a Gw lover but no need to see that as a catchphrase. My take is if even one more games company goes under then there is less base for people that use this software or any other addon and your basicly going to cut your own throats if you let it go. Sure he has a right to his opinion but i allso have a right not to see it. But of course this is all acdemic if you cant see how poorly the reply was!!! in the first place,it could have been We havent finished the files yet and i dont have an eta please keep checking and not the sarcastic tone impled .

 

[Spack]

There is no "rant" in jlong's reply - that's on *ALL* of his posts as it's his signature! It wasn't aimed at the original poster as you have stated. You might want to spend a bit more time on the internet and learn how things work before you start running around accusing people of anything.

 

[darkvector]

I know its his signature and thats the main problem you cant be having a moderator with that as his sig. You tend to try and belittle people with your replys in no way have i been abusive or irate on this but looks like you dont want anything said against you . Well thanks for the replys i know now not to say anything on here if i expect a reasoned reply, and with that i will end my views on this but just saying that Gw would have a field day with you leagaly if they choose to. Good day to you all.

 

[edavi830]

Simple to answer. When it's done. Not sooner, not later.

This was terrible customer service, your tone here was not warranted. We do pay money, every year, to use this product. Do not make the mistake of making it seem like the only think YOU are interested in is lining your own pockets with OUR money. For you to have a quote that says what it does makes you seem hippocritical when you provide aweful customer service to a very innocent question. Being a nice doesn't take any more work than being a jerk. All i'm gonna say.

 

[Spack]

What makes you think jlong is a moderator? He's not part of Lone Wolf. A few of us are "Senior Members" because we've been here a long time, and in the case of jlong any myself are part of the AB40k team. We are not affiliated with LW in any way. We don't get paid, we make no money from our involvement, it's purely voluntary - if GW disappears then yes, we'd lose a big part of "the hobby", but it's hardly "cutting our own throats" - no GW, no 40k, no files, and the maintainers to have a break and no longer get constantly hassled by people who want file updates yesterday, or think they're entitled to make demands of us (or any other team/person that creates files for AB). I personally use own money to pay for hosting the AB40k.org website and making it available for the maintainers to use as a central place to discuss issues and keep track of bugs. I'll be better off financially if GW disappears!

At the end of the day anyone who has paid for AB has paid for a tool that they can use to create their own files for any game system, if you want to use files created by someone else there should be some respect given to those people as they've spent their own time working on them for the benefit of others. Members of the 40k team, and I would assume teams of other file groups, have quit in the past partly due to the hassle from ungrateful users who have no idea how much work goes into the creation, testing, and fixing files for games systems on an ongoing basis.

There was nothing hostile about jlong's reply. I've read it multiple times, not only here but elsewhere - it's a simple statement of fact, and can also be found in one of the sticky topics right here in the 40k forum. I don't see Protowolf complaining - you're the only one who has decided to take exception to it.

And as to GW "having a field day", even their legal team would not be stupid enough to go after 1 person over a single line in a forum signature that is his personal opinion and is fully entitled to it - GW doesn't get to dictate international law over censureship and/or censorship. If rather than referring to jlong's signature you're referring to Lone Wolf and Army Builder itself, you can read all about their history with GW right here on the forum and you'll realise that GW have "been there, done that, lost the plot" before, and Army Builder is still alive and kicking.

Is this reply reasoned enough for you? At the end of the day it's almost impossible to confer emotion or intent in a post on a forum on the internet, so try not to read too much into anything that is written. Take my own replies and treat them with a pinch of salt and move on, it's no skin off my nose if you think I'm an arrogant self-centred **** - in fact I kind of like that, it's better than being the monotone, boring geek/nerd that I am in real life (<- see that, it's a tongue-in-cheek smiley; the nearest thing I could find to convey how the content of my posts should be taken by anyone reading them)

This was terrible customer service, your tone here was not warranted. We do pay money, every year, to use this product. Do not make the mistake of making it seem like the only think YOU are interested in is lining your own pockets with OUR money. For you to have a quote that says what it does makes you seem hippocritical when you provide aweful customer service to a very innocent question. Being a nice doesn't take any more work than being a jerk. All i'm gonna say.

And to reiterate the above, jlong05 does not work for LW - he gets no money from LW, or anyone else, for being part of the AB40k team. Don't make the mistake of confusing a user of LW's products who also happen to be an unpaid volunteer who works on the AB40k file as lining his pocket's with anyone's money, let alone yours. And you've also taken a simple statement of fact and read way more into it than is written. Next time you want to go accusing someone of something check your facts first. And before you go off half-cocked at me I'm also not part of LW. The simple fact is that you've paid money to LW to purchase a license to use Army Builder, and that entitles you to support from them and you have the tools to create your own files for any game system you choose. If you're going to use the files created by volunteers then please show them the respect they deserve; they're saving you a lot of time and expense by doing all the work for you!

 

[jlong05]

Hmmm.. maybe I should have been paying more attention lately as I didn't even know my signature finally got some comments. Kind of funny it has been there for 6 months now and no one has complained until now, and then only because they took my post out of context and didn't fully understand my position on these forums.

I guess in the future I should simply respond to question posts like this as:

http://forums.wolflair.com/showthread.php?t=12000
http://forums.wolflair.com/showthread.php?t=7998
http://forums.wolflair.com/showthread.php?t=7454

All of these are posted as Sticky messages as well(assuming people read those, which we have confirmed many do not.) I personally like the last best as it was posted by our prior leader Harkan in February of 2008 which said EXACTLY what I said in my above post.

EDIT:

@darkvector; I don't presume to tell you what is appropriate in your signature, please don't tell us either. I have had this stand since the mid year price hike from GW last year without a single complaint from users, staff or otherwise. In fact I have this SAME signature on several other sites as well, without ever a comment to remove or that someone was offended. When GW decides to listen to their customer base and produce quality products at reasonable prices I will be happy to amend my statement. Considering your time on these forums(Joined April 2013 and only posted in this single thread complaining about my response) I take your comments for the trolling effort they are.

@edavi830; thanks for continuing the never-ending process of confirming the average user fails to read any stickied topic prior to posting. Had you read those stickied topics(linked in the post above) you would have seen what Mr Spack also stated in that LW and us have no part with each other. Considering your time on these forums(Joined April 2013 and only posted this single post) I take your comments for the trolling effort they are. (BTW, are you and darkvector friends or something.. sheesh) Hopefully this post and Spacks will help the rest of the community in understanding how the files are supported. Now, do I want to see LW affected, no, but as a consumer, you should get your facts straight before making comments as you did. You wouldn't hold Wal-Mart responsible for something a customer of theirs in store said about the poor products in the store now would you?

 

[darkvector]

Just because i only joined the forum the other day dosnt mean im a troll i have had lone wolf products for over 5 years i mearly decided to have a look on the forum worst mistake i ever made . I realise that the site is volenterly updated but i was mearly objecting to the way you answered his question which could have been much more tolerant. Dont tell me you dint mean as a (oh blast another person asking me a dumb question that i dont have time for id better show whos boss ) and even if you did make it with another intent then you obviosly havent got it across well. As to your sig well i think you should rethink it if you represent the site in any capacity its ok if your an individual but not as a person who updates. Its allso very easy to tell people if you dont like it then do it yourself not a very helpfull or mature comment as
the way you do updates would stuff it up time and time again and besides i pay a licencing fee to keep the files current...... anyways good day to you again.

 

[UltraPrime]

besides i pay a licencing fee to keep the files current...... anyways good day to you again.

No, you absolutely do not. You pay a licencing fee to keep Army Builder current, and to get access to any automatic updates. If nobody released any files whatsoever, no promises would be broken. Lone Wolf have NOTHING to do with the data files, and data file authors have NOTHING to do with Lone Wolf. We do this in our spare time. If we don't have the time, we can't update them. Speaking for myself, I am a single father of two, and they get priority. If I get time to work on files, I do it. If not, I don't.

 

[jlong05]

No, you absolutely do not. You pay a licencing fee to keep Army Builder current, and to get access to any automatic updates. If nobody released any files whatsoever, no promises would be broken. Lone Wolf have NOTHING to do with the data files, and data file authors have NOTHING to do with Lone Wolf. We do this in our spare time. If we don't have the time, we can't update them. Speaking for myself, I am a single father of two, and they get priority. If I get time to work on files, I do it. If not, I don't.

This +1

I still think that no matter how many times we all say it, how many times we all post it, the general user base fails to read the licensing agreement on Army Builder.

To reiterate, your purchase of Army Builder and licensing grants you use of the application, free updates to the app as released by Lonewolf and finally access to the automatic file download system.

Additionally you are granted access to the ABCreator tool to create files.

What you are not promised is actual FILES. You may create these with ABCreator, or you may use files created by others, but LoneWolf DOES NOT create the files for any GW licensed game. They are NOT ALLOWED to help in the file creation of any GW licensed game and finally their hosting server is not allowed to HOST and files from a GW licensed game.

Hopefully this is more clear.

 

[Wildcard1980]

Thanks

I just want to take the time to thank you and the guys like you that give your time so that players like Me can have an easier time making armies. So thanks again and I hope your week goes well.

 

[edavi830]

This +1

I still think that no matter how many times we all say it, how many times we all post it, the general user base fails to read the licensing agreement on Army Builder.

To reiterate, your purchase of Army Builder and licensing grants you use of the application, free updates to the app as released by Lonewolf and finally access to the automatic file download system.

Additionally you are granted access to the ABCreator tool to create files.

What you are not promised is actual FILES. You may create these with ABCreator, or you may use files created by others, but LoneWolf DOES NOT create the files for any GW licensed game. They are NOT ALLOWED to help in the file creation of any GW licensed game and finally their hosting server is not allowed to HOST and files from a GW licensed game.

Hopefully this is more clear.

Thanks for clearing that up for me. I really wish i'd never checked out the forums. I think I can pretty much say for just about everyone who uses this product that NO ONE buys it thinking "well jeez now I can make my own data files!".

I've talked to my entire playgroup about this and shown them this thread, most of us have purchased a license to use this product and were quite a bit put off to learn that we are paying money on a yearly basis to help support a company who really profits from the work of un-compensated volunteers. As I stated before NONE OF US purchase this software thinking that we will be creating our own files.

I need to say that as volunteers you do fantastic work with the software. That said, myself and several others of us (after having it made clear to us how this works) will no longer continue to purchase the licenses to use this product. It's a shame because it's a great program, and great work is done with the datafiles. However I cannot, in good conscience (and neither can several others in my group) continue to support a business that clearly profits from the works of unpaid volunteers, who are also clearly bitter that they are uncompensated and (seemingly) unappreciated.

My earlier post was did contain a bit of frustration, but it was born of a bitter response to someone who was clearly asking an innocent and honest question who pays to use this product. The response to that person by a "datafile author" was clearly venemous; as have been the responses made by other "senior members" in response to my post as well as others.

In summary I just want to make the point that I understand your predicament, but your attitude stinks, and it has lost Lonewolf three or four customers, for whatever that is worth.

 

[morkalg]

I just want to take the time to thank you and the guys like you that give your time so that players like Me can have an easier time making armies. So thanks again and I hope your week goes well.

Indeed! I tried my hand at making army files once... not my thing at all. I do however maintain a campaign website and a custom wiki for my gaming group and so in the smallest way I can empathize with all the hard work you guys put into the files.

To bad people don't bother to read and/or understand exactly how the software they spend hard earned money on actually works. I get as impatient as the next guy for updated files but I appreciate the effort to make them so I just bide my time.

This thread though has been entertaining.

 

[morkalg]

However I cannot, in good conscience (and neither can several others in my group) continue to support a business that clearly profits from the works of unpaid volunteers, who are also clearly bitter that they are uncompensated and (seemingly) unappreciated.

(1) I have no affiliation at all with Lone Wolf Development.

(2) I do NOT make/edit army builder files nor am I affiliated with the creators.

Please understand the above.

You are totally entitled to your opinion on how you spend your money but I think you should consider that Lone Wolf would probably LOVE to be able to create 40K army builder files. Their hands are tied however by Games Workshop and the iron fisted control they maintain over their IP.

Of course... it IS theirs to do with as they please.

I play all the Warhammer 40K RPG's published by Fantasy Flight Games and am a beta tester for Realm Works and use it extensively to manage my 40K game campaigns. I also own Hero Lab and would love to use it to manage my players characters for my 40K games. I've talked to the developers, even got an internet petition going and got all the signatures I set out for to try and get FFG to allow Lone Wolf to make Hero Lab files but all of it was shot down by Games Workshop. Both sides would love to be able to do this and I'm sure there are a lot of other companies out there that could produce interesting 40K related products if only the licensing was allowed but it all comes back to what Games Workshop will allow NOT Lone Wolf.

Maybe the data file creators do feel taken advantage of, I'm not going to speak for them, but choosing not to support a program that I feel does every single they that CAN legally do to make our hobby easier and more accessible only hurts the hobby in the long run.

Just my two cents.

 

[jlong05]

While we thank you for your willingness to limit your personal use of army builder due to a misunderstanding on how files are created, I don't think any current, past, or future data file creator/maintainer feels that lonewolfs is making money off their hard work.

I know for myself I work on the files because I play the game, enjoy the game, and use the files as a game aide myself. This in effects show the datafiles maintainer process ever started. As a game comes, someone decides to make the files as a aide for themselves and provide it for others.

Holding lonewolf or army builder responsile for not understanding this is just bad for you. As stated before, I am not bitter or upset, and while my response was pointed and short, it was not in anyway bitter or rude. As I indicated, simply a review of the forums and the sticky traded items would have given a baseline of when rules are available.

Since in general we have to answer this same question about every other month(basically as each new codex is released by GW) one can see where it has become faster to answer as I did and not as we use to do in long personalized posts or pm's. instead we posted a sticky thread and also listed the same details in the FAQ.

Also remember, that the files exist for more than just GW, and there are many other great games available. The licensing system is great for keeping all your games updated.

 

[jlong05]

Since in general we have to answer this same question about every other month(basically as each new codex is released by GW) one can see where it has become faster to answer as I did and not as we use to do in long personalized posts or pm's. instead we posted a sticky thread and also listed the same details in the FAQ.

I hate to quote myself, but just had to for this:

http://forums.wolflair.com/showthread.php?t=43440

I rest my case.