• Please note: In an effort to ensure that all of our users feel welcome on our forums, we’ve updated our forum rules. You can review the updated rules here: http://forums.wolflair.com/showthread.php?t=5528.

    If a fellow Community member is not following the forum rules, please report the post by clicking the Report button (the red yield sign on the left) located on every post. This will notify the moderators directly. If you have any questions about these new rules, please contact support@wolflair.com.

    - The Lone Wolf Development Team

Cantrips in starting spellbook

charlieluce

charlieluce

Well-known member
The new Spellbook system appears to assume that a Wizard or Arcanist only starts with the Cantrips that appear in Core, and must pay or take as their free level-up spells any other 0-level spells. Can someone point me to an official Paizo ruling to this effect? I've never encountered anyone whose game made that assumption (though I've never done any Pathfinder Society play).

I've reported this as a bug, because at the very least I'd like a House Rule setting that overrides this.
 
Read the rules in the Ultimate Magic web extra pdf that these spells came from. Also, this has been the way HL has handled those spells since Ultimate Magic was released - only core o-level spells are automatically added to spellbooks.

If your GM says otherwise, use the "Buy for free" checkbox when adding them.
 
Mathias said:
Read the rules in the Ultimate Magic web extra pdf that these spells came from.
Click to expand...

Link? All I can find on the Paizo site is a suggestion that "Core Only" could be used as a House Rule.

If your GM says otherwise, use the "Buy for free" checkbox when adding them.
Click to expand...

That still doesn't list them properly under Free Spells. Is this something that I can fix in the editor without a ridiculous amount of trouble? Is it something I can turn off?
 
Thank you for the link. I still want a way to implement a House Rule that isn't awkward or clunky-looking. This is going to affect every spellbook using PC and NPC in our games.
 
Last edited:
charlieluce said:
Thank you for the link. I still want a way to implement a House Rule that isn't awkward or clunky-looking. This is going to affect every spellbook using PC and NPC in our games.
Click to expand...

This got thoroughly discussed in PFS play and that's the PFS rule in Additional Resources. Only CRB cantrips are automatically included. (And remember that cantrips in your opposition schools take up TWO slots to prepare.)

It works the other way around as well. If your PC successfully researches a new cantrip, it doesn't magically pop up in every other wizard's book.
 
Okay, I get that the vast majority of non-PFS games are Doing It Wrong (believe me, I spent a lot of time searching through forums on the subject). It's still apparently an extremely common House Rule, and I'd like to see support for it - I outlined an approach in my Spell Costs topic that I think would work for everyone and would not be disruptive to implement.
 
Adding *all* the level 0 spells to a hero's spellbook isn't something we want to do at the moment, because adding having all those spells on every character would use a lot of extra memory - even if you weren't using them, they're still there in the background, taking up space. :(

Not only that, with some of the addons we have - for example, 1001 spells - adding *all* the spells would mean you had over 100 spells in your starting spell list, which we think is a few too many. :)

If it's something you want for your campaign, you have two options:

1) As Mathias suggests, add the level 0 spells you want "for free" to the spellbook
2) In the editor, create an adjustment that bootstraps the level 0 spells you want with the Helper.WizBoot tag (or equivalent other tag) and then add it to the hero.

With either of these options, you can get the spells you want to make legal for your campaign. :)
 
I'm seriously considering adopting a House Rule that spellbook casters get their casting stat in 0-level spells of their choice (subject to any DM rulings) in their initial spellbook, though I'm afraid that it would be a terror to try and implement in Hero Lab.
 
charlieluce said:
I'm seriously considering adopting a House Rule that spellbook casters get their casting stat in 0-level spells of their choice (subject to any DM rulings) in their initial spellbook, though I'm afraid that it would be a terror to try and implement in Hero Lab.
Click to expand...

By the standard rules, all book casters get more than that by having all of the CRB spells.
 
LazarX said:
By the standard rules, all book casters get more than that by having all of the CRB spells.
Click to expand...

Oh, I realize, but it's been my experience that any given caster actually uses maybe ten cantrips across the course of their careers anyway. This gives spellbook casters the cantrips that they really think are worthwhile, just like every other level of spell.
 
When we're done with spellbooks, that house rule will be pretty easy to do - you'll be able to change the number of free spells a character has, then simply delete the spellbook with all the standard cantrips in it. Then you can add a new spellbook with whatever free cantrips and other spells that you want.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top