Best Practices: Rise of the Runelords/ Inner Sea

[Romaq]

It appears that a sizable chunk of RW users are explicitly using the software for the Golarion/ Inner Sea setting, if not explicitly Rise of the Runelords.

I have ... so much dead-tree printed material, and I would love to pay Lone Wolf to license it into RW by yesterday. Unfortunately, until they do, they din't.

I entered in "Alignment" as a tag on the 9 point scale as suggested by the Ultimate Campaign book. That wasn't such a bad task, and it lets me tag anything "somewhere along alignment" while allowing for PCs and NPCs to identify as changing their alignment. That's happy.

Next, I started entering in the core deities of Golarion. I started with religious groups, I set up domain tags, and so on, and I quickly got bogged down.

Would it be possible to exchange "open template" suggestions on how to set up for a Rise of the Runelords campaign without using copyright material, and do this within the forum? Just advice on how to plan for things specific to RotRL and get the software to where I can make basic use of it and fill things out later. Desna is an "entity", but I have her as a "religion". I think She is rather important. What about Her is *crucial* to RotRL? How best to I organize that crucial information? Lamashtu is roughly on par. Others, less so, but I would dearly love to take the pile of books I have on the core and simply fill out the table and forget it if I can get it all done in one sitting.

Golarion. Planes, the Inner Sea region, Avistan, Varisia, Sandpoint... I started adding tags for continents vs. political regions, and so on. I can see that very quickly getting out of hand if I try to shove in my entire Inner Sea World Guide, though eventually I do dearly freakin' hope I can just pay Lone Wolf to make the pain go away.

Until we can legally share or purchase a license for this specific content, what are some "best practices"? What do I do without re-inventing solutions to problems Beta you guys have already worked out six months ago for this specific campaign setting?

 

[Farling]

I suspect that there will be a standard category layout which will be used for all published Pathfinder content.

It may, or may not, match the standard RW categories (there are some ways in which the standard Pathfinder layout/information doesn't map so easily onto the RW "generic" category structure).

 

[Romaq]

"... May or may not match..." indeed. While entering a few places, the generic approach seemed wonky. I look forward to seeing what approach works out as a "best practice" for ISWG material. I do plan to annoy Paizo about licensing material for RW at PaizoCon.

 

[Silveras]

I suspect that there will be a standard category layout which will be used for all published Pathfinder content.

It may, or may not, match the standard RW categories (there are some ways in which the standard Pathfinder layout/information doesn't map so easily onto the RW "generic" category structure).

Yes, that's exactly what I expect as well. This also holds true for the mechanics, as well.

Since I want any new mechanics I add to mesh as well as possible with any published versions, I am not entering any mechanics at the moment. I will wait to see what the official version looks like, first.

As for the Golarion information, and the AP-specific information, I have been entering Second Darkness, and have some thoughts.

1) I created a new Category for the Players Guide with sections and snippets that match the published one. All content is revealed at the start. I've added place-holder snippets for advice on new classes that was not in the original Second Darkness Players' Guide, and will add what I think is the appropriate advice later.

2) Focus on the Story elements. Enter only as much of the World details as you need. That includes deities, nations, geography, and so on. Even if you later decide that you don't want to pay for the official version, you will probably want to enter this information yourself once and re-use it (which the Repository/Marketplace is expected to allow you to do); that will probably not be in the same Realm as you are using to run the AP now.

3) Be prepared to re-organize the information. Some information is presented in encounters, but it is really about other NPCs, places, items, events, etc. Be prepared to go back to the relevant topic and add the information there... while the encounter may have a GM Note that the information can now be revealed.

4) I have created "Adventure" and "Adventure Section" topics to correspond to the 6 volunes of an AP. I use the Identifier with a code to track things like "AP13.6 A1" for "AP volume 13 Part 6 location A1". Think about how you may need to re-use Locations and Individuals.. and maybe put the "permanent" Location/Individual information in the appropriate Location/Individual topic, but anything that is encounter-specific (such as Tactics for an Individual) into a Scene topic for that encounter, which I then make a child of the Adventure Section.

 

[lifer4700]

I've got a situation that is likely unique.

I am entering Rise of the Runelords and Golarion / Inner Sea information into the World and Story almanac as many are, however, I'm holding off on the mechanics for now.

I've actually created a second realm just for mechanics. My reason is that I'm actually NOT using the Pathfinder game system itself. I'm using Fantasy Craft, a Mastercraft product from Crafty Games.

Once I figure out how I want to organize the mechanics, then I'll enter them for real.


Right now, I'm still in the process of entering the basic information: shops, owners, NPCs, etc. And I find the ideas and suggestions here to be useful.

 

[AEIOU]

Why create a Category for Player's Guide? That seems counterproductive to me. Instead, enter the locales, NPC's, lore from the Player's Guide and mark just the snippets from the Player's guide as "player revealed". Add more snippets to really flesh the locales, NPC's, lore out and don't reveal that. That way all the information on Ashwood or Celwynvian or Hook Mountain is in one place.

As for mechanics, I'd reckon most people are skipping that for now. For Pathfinder, it's a guaranteed add-on package I would reckon. The only reason to add mechanics is if you are playing a less-supported game system or you don't want to spend the money for the official version. That said, most companies will want to encourage people to use their system so maybe they'll all be free or not contested when users produce community versions.

 

[Silveras]

I found a category for Players Guide necessary because it contains information that does not fit under other topics. Speaking for Second Darkness specifically, the material on the city of Riddleport can go into a Community and various Merchant, Location, Individual, etc. topics. However, advice like "X would be a good choice of Favored Enemy for Rangers early in the campaign, while Y and Z will become more common later" does not really fit into other topics.

 

[AEIOU]

I'd put that in the Realm Starting Point. It's a little blue house icon to the left of the back button. But your method works quite well as well. I was thinking of the world content as the meat of a Player's Guide but the mechanics, world flavor and character suggestions are really useful too.

I love that there isn't one way to do things.

 

[Romaq]

I love that there isn't one way to do things.

That, of course, would be the point of a "best practices" discussion. B-)

 

[Talinthalas]

I am working on Wrath of the Righteous, but the same issues. I actually would love to have access to the Core Rulebook in the Mechanics section so that I could link to a spell, skill, condition, etc. I would be glad to help with creating this content for Lone Wolf, or figure out what the standard template for it all should be.

 

[lifer4700]

I plan on adding Spells, Feats, Weapons, etc. into the Mechanics section as the players acquire them. There is simply too much to enter up front otherwise.

I did enter all things like Conditions, Damage Types, basic Actions, Weapon Qualities, since there is a reasonably finite number of them.

 

[Talinthalas]

I agree, but I can really see the use of being able to click on a spell and get the description especially in a Paizo product where they list the spells that NPC will cast, and then let's say that causes a condition and be able to click on that and bring it up. That would save me a ton of time during game, although add a bunch for prep.

 

[rob]

In case you didn't see it, I posted a thread on Friday entitled Realm Works Status Update. Here are two items from that post that are directly pertinent to this thread:

2. We have been putting together a substantive Best Practices guide that includes all sorts of tips and tricks. The goal is to make it available next week as well, but I'm worried that might be too optimistic. So stay tuned and we'll get that document to you in the near future.

3. We've been folding an actual Pathfinder Adventure Path into Realm Works. We chose Rise of the Runelords as our test case. We'll be using this work as the basis for putting together concrete recommendations for everyone as they tackle putting assorted published content into Realm Works. We'll also be able to provide some screenshots with examples of how we've chosen to model various things. As part of our effort, we're also giving thought to delivery of the material, so we'll also be able to provide some helpful guidance for those of you who are looking to share/publish your content.

I'm sure your first reaction to the above is "Oh no! What about all the work I've done?" and your second reaction is "What do I do until the info is published?". Please don't fret.

My recommendation is to stay the course with whatever you're doing, since most of it probably won't be dramatically different from what we recommend. For the exceptions that are, you probably aren't doing things "wrong" - just different. And that's one of the great things about Realm Works, as there are multiple ways to accomplish the same thing that work better for different users.

If you're still worried, then focus on the story content. My guess is that any big differences will probably lie in the top-level approach we're using for organizing and presenting the overall content. It may also extend into the way we're encapsulating the separate chapters and parts of the AP. However, all of the "meat" of the AP (the other 98+% of the book) will probably end up being very similar. So if you focus your efforts on those aspects, you won't run the risk of investing more effort in areas that will differ substantially from our recommendations.

I hope this provides some comfort that help is on the way and allays concerns about the work you're actively doing. Stay tuned for lots of meaty suggestions on the ways we're going about this stuff. And rest assured that, as long as the way you're doing things works well for you, there's absolutely NO reason you need to change anything, even if your way differs from ours.

 

[Romaq]

Oh! Thank you, Rob! That's great news. Sorry I didn't follow up earlier, I'm working long hours so I had to wait to get back on this. Realm Works: What lets me pick up & put down campaign work without losing my place.

"... even if your way differs from ours."

Time = money. I don't have time (working 55+ hours per week), but I have money (working 55+ hours per week) at the moment. I don't have time to learn things the "hard way", so mostly I am looking to borrow on someone ELSE has already suffered the pain and anguish of learning how to make the best use of RW *badly*, so they can learn how to make it better, so I can skip to the part about using optimal techniques spoken of in this message tread. And I am thankful, by the way, for some tips spoken of here.

I am very interested in your Best Practices guide, and I look forward to seeing improvements on it over time.

Even better, I'm very VERY happy you picked, "Rise of the Runelords", the first campaign I plan to cut my teeth on as an idjiot n3wb GM first campaign. When it comes to the time = money equation, I would be way more than pleased to throw money at Lone Wolf so I don't have to deal with entering in the broad outline of my campaign. The GameMastery Guide makes much over using player choices to drive the campaign you both enjoy while having backup options you can quickly reskin and repurpose as things progress. So RW for me, and RotRL on it is mostly about having my hard-bound print edition in an e-format that allows me to scribe, trash and otherwise mangle in a live campaign, then push a 'reset' button to get it back for a future campaign when I get to do it again. I really don't wish to trash my hardcopy book, and doing all this to the PDF doesn't seem very good either.

Anyway, the way that works best for me is to throw money at you guys in exchange for not having to take the time for me to do all of the initial data entry. As long as we agree this works for our professional relationship, things are fine.

 

[lifer4700]

Anyway, the way that works best for me is to throw money at you guys in exchange for not having to take the time for me to do all of the initial data entry. As long as we agree this works for our professional relationship, things are fine.

+1 To this

 

[DrJones72]

Have my +1 as well

 

[Vangerdahast]

+1, me too (and it seems my daughter who has offered me her piggy bank, but i suspect that's a very clever attempt to get an invite to my pathfinder group)