Seeker1728
Well-known member
Hi;
First let me say that I've owned HL for quite a while now and consider it a pretty awesome product for the most part, with the editor both one of its greater assets and also one of its most vexing. I've tried without success my entire weekend to create a custom archtype, searched forums and tutorials without any success. Tutorials may have the answer, but they are written with a assumption of being conversant with writing scripts, which I am not and so without a specific example to copy I'm lost. As a final attempt to do this I have come here to seek assistance and hopefully in the process learn something I can apply for this and future projects. Its a rather long post because I wanted to present as clear of a picture as possible of my efforts.
Situation: I'm running a PF campaign where the Ninja class is being used. Two things about the class however are not suiting our campaign's flavor, the first is the amount of starting Ki the characters get, and the other is Sneak Attack. Removing SA from the Archtype was easy enough, but I wanted to replace it with a new special collection of feats that functioned similar to how Rogues have a table to select Rogue Talents from.
My intention was to build a "Martial Arts" table that would include all the combat styles (I.E. Boar Style, Dragon Style, etc) that fit the theme, along with a collection of certain feats such as Dodge/Improved Trip, and some select others. I did not want to remove Ninja Tricks, I wanted to make this Martial Arts ability an additional set of feats the Archtype would acquire as they leveled instead of Sneak Attack, but parsed out to be acquired in the same manner as standard Ninjas got their SA. In case my wording is difficult to follow, here is a an example of how I wanted it to work.
Standard 5th level Ninja normally has +3d6 Sneak Attack upon reaching 5th level.
This Archtype has a table from which it selected the feats Dodge, Mobility, and Boar Style. These were acquired at the same rate as the standard class did its SA dice, chosen from a custom table that included many more combat styles and other related combat feats.
Here is what I have attempted to do so far. I will be a bit meticulious in listing all the steps to make sure I didn't blindly stumble past some requirement.
Under the Bonus Feat section I attempted to create the table that would have the choice of feats:
This is what happens after I save, compile and make available as a Archtype for the Ninja.
The Archtype loads as a option for the player to choose. Creating a level 8 Ninja of this AT for testing purposes shows me under the "Ninja" tab the following:
Clicking on the "Add More Martial Arts" area however does not produce the results I had expected. Instead of a table that functions similar to the Ninja Tricks or Rogue Talent tables, I have what looks like a generic Feat table selection. If "Show Everything" is selected, it shows every frigging feat in the system. If I select "Show Only Valid Items" it shows things that were specifically NOT selected so long as the entry level requirements for the feat are satisfied by the hero. Basically it still shows every feat in the system so long as the hero meets entry requirements, if there are no requirements at all, the feat is present and a "valid choice".
Example: Selecting "Show Only Valid Items" the table includes feats such as Animal Affinity, Bouncing Spell, Dark Adept, All Gnolls Must Die, as allowable choices.
I then attempted the following:
I went into the "Additional Bonus Feat" edit button and hit select all, then manually deselected the feats I specifically wanted to be part of the choices available. This made absolutely zero difference. Example: Whether "All Gnolls Must Die" is checked or not, in either the allowable or non-allowable tables, it is available to the player as a choice from the Martial Arts selector. HL doesn't give a fig what I mark that feat as, its letting the player have it.
Then I went into the "Additional Bonus Feats Allowed" and chose only specific feats that I wanted, avoiding checking any Categories. I followed up by going into the "Additional Bonus Feats" and manually selected all the feats that were showing up that I did not want to be available to this list. Results were the same, even when selected to NOT show up, the feats in question showed up. (as an aside, seriously, naming the field "Additional Bonus Feats" is Yoda talk for choices that exclude feats from being available. "Unallowable or Excluded Bonus Feats" would make a lot more sense don't you think?).
Believing my error to be where I was attempting to construct this table
A) I deleted all the entries under "Bonus Feats"
B) moved down to the section "Secondary Bonus Feats" and replicated my efforts from above. Result was exactly the same, every frigging feat the system has being tossed in regardless if its checked as available or not, is listed. The only difference being whether its greyed out or not.
I then thought perhaps I need to do what Rogues and Alchemists do, and build a special table under the "Custom Ability" tab. I thought if I could see how those 2 Classes built their special tables, then I could copy its structure and then port it over to this Ninja AT. Unfortunately, all such tables are hidden or at the bare minimum, not visible using the editor and its "New (Copy)" feature. If there is a means by which one could do a copy/paste of say the Alchemist's Discoveries table, its buried in the interface so deeply that only a programmer stands a chance of finding it.
So finally, being at wits end, I post this long and detailed account hoping someone can guide me to solving this problem. I think I anticipated any possible questions one might have, but if not I'll do my best to respond quickly and completely. Thanks for enduring the long read.
First let me say that I've owned HL for quite a while now and consider it a pretty awesome product for the most part, with the editor both one of its greater assets and also one of its most vexing. I've tried without success my entire weekend to create a custom archtype, searched forums and tutorials without any success. Tutorials may have the answer, but they are written with a assumption of being conversant with writing scripts, which I am not and so without a specific example to copy I'm lost. As a final attempt to do this I have come here to seek assistance and hopefully in the process learn something I can apply for this and future projects. Its a rather long post because I wanted to present as clear of a picture as possible of my efforts.
Situation: I'm running a PF campaign where the Ninja class is being used. Two things about the class however are not suiting our campaign's flavor, the first is the amount of starting Ki the characters get, and the other is Sneak Attack. Removing SA from the Archtype was easy enough, but I wanted to replace it with a new special collection of feats that functioned similar to how Rogues have a table to select Rogue Talents from.
My intention was to build a "Martial Arts" table that would include all the combat styles (I.E. Boar Style, Dragon Style, etc) that fit the theme, along with a collection of certain feats such as Dodge/Improved Trip, and some select others. I did not want to remove Ninja Tricks, I wanted to make this Martial Arts ability an additional set of feats the Archtype would acquire as they leveled instead of Sneak Attack, but parsed out to be acquired in the same manner as standard Ninjas got their SA. In case my wording is difficult to follow, here is a an example of how I wanted it to work.
Standard 5th level Ninja normally has +3d6 Sneak Attack upon reaching 5th level.
This Archtype has a table from which it selected the feats Dodge, Mobility, and Boar Style. These were acquired at the same rate as the standard class did its SA dice, chosen from a custom table that included many more combat styles and other related combat feats.
Here is what I have attempted to do so far. I will be a bit meticulious in listing all the steps to make sure I didn't blindly stumble past some requirement.
- In the Editor I selected Archtype and typed in the name and unique id I wanted, inserted flavor text.
- Under "Class to modify" I chose from the menu "Ninja"
- Left Variant Class level blank as this is a Archtype replacing all levels.
- Modify Class name appended in paraentheses
- Counts as archtypes: I selected "Monk" and "Ninja" to satisfy any Monk requirements for the "Martial Arts" based feats/abilities.
- Clear Alignment Restrictions is checked (figured selecting Monk in step 5 would otherwise impose a Lawful alignment requirement)
- Class Special Abilities I selected a few feats which I felt were appropriate for the Archtype to get spaced out over 20 levels.
- Removed Class Special Abilities of Sneak Attack (which was listed twice, checked both)
- Class Statistics was left unchanged
- Additional Class skills was left alone
- Removed one class skill of Use Magic Device (low magic campaign)
- Additional Class Weapons I added all the default ninja weapons as I saw no listing on the test character that they could use anything past Simple Weapons
- Removed Weapon/Armor I removed the Light Armor proficiency.
Under the Bonus Feat section I attempted to create the table that would have the choice of feats:
- Bonus Feats Granted: Added "Improved Unarmed Strike" with no prereq.
- Modified Bonus Feats Per level: I added 10, one every other level using sequential numbering (i.e. 1, 2, 3, 4-10) to replace SA.
- Additional Bonus Feats Allowed: Checked the combat styles and combat categories, and went down the long list of feats checking the ones I wanted to add, including all Style feats and their related feats (I.E. Crane Style/Crane Wing/Crane Riposte all checked individually). All choices add up to 94 items selected.
- Additional bonus feats : according to the ? on this line, this is where I select any individual feats that fall into a category I checked above but did not wish available. (I.E. Lets say Marid Style is not available. A) make sure its not checked in step 3 above B) check Marid style here so that its the only style excluded from the list of styles otherwise available)
- Bonus Feats Name: I typed in the name Martial Arts
This is what happens after I save, compile and make available as a Archtype for the Ninja.
The Archtype loads as a option for the player to choose. Creating a level 8 Ninja of this AT for testing purposes shows me under the "Ninja" tab the following:
- The first field is "Add more Ninja Tricks" (4 left)! in purple text. Clicking on this field allows the player to choose Ninja Tricks as per standard rules.
- The 2nd field is "Add more Martial Arts" (4 left) in purple text.
- All the feats that were replaced are listed but greyed out with (Replaced) underneath.
- All the feats that I specifically added in Class Special Abilities are available and present at the appropriate level I chose for them.
Clicking on the "Add More Martial Arts" area however does not produce the results I had expected. Instead of a table that functions similar to the Ninja Tricks or Rogue Talent tables, I have what looks like a generic Feat table selection. If "Show Everything" is selected, it shows every frigging feat in the system. If I select "Show Only Valid Items" it shows things that were specifically NOT selected so long as the entry level requirements for the feat are satisfied by the hero. Basically it still shows every feat in the system so long as the hero meets entry requirements, if there are no requirements at all, the feat is present and a "valid choice".
Example: Selecting "Show Only Valid Items" the table includes feats such as Animal Affinity, Bouncing Spell, Dark Adept, All Gnolls Must Die, as allowable choices.
I then attempted the following:
I went into the "Additional Bonus Feat" edit button and hit select all, then manually deselected the feats I specifically wanted to be part of the choices available. This made absolutely zero difference. Example: Whether "All Gnolls Must Die" is checked or not, in either the allowable or non-allowable tables, it is available to the player as a choice from the Martial Arts selector. HL doesn't give a fig what I mark that feat as, its letting the player have it.
Then I went into the "Additional Bonus Feats Allowed" and chose only specific feats that I wanted, avoiding checking any Categories. I followed up by going into the "Additional Bonus Feats" and manually selected all the feats that were showing up that I did not want to be available to this list. Results were the same, even when selected to NOT show up, the feats in question showed up. (as an aside, seriously, naming the field "Additional Bonus Feats" is Yoda talk for choices that exclude feats from being available. "Unallowable or Excluded Bonus Feats" would make a lot more sense don't you think?).
Believing my error to be where I was attempting to construct this table
A) I deleted all the entries under "Bonus Feats"
B) moved down to the section "Secondary Bonus Feats" and replicated my efforts from above. Result was exactly the same, every frigging feat the system has being tossed in regardless if its checked as available or not, is listed. The only difference being whether its greyed out or not.
I then thought perhaps I need to do what Rogues and Alchemists do, and build a special table under the "Custom Ability" tab. I thought if I could see how those 2 Classes built their special tables, then I could copy its structure and then port it over to this Ninja AT. Unfortunately, all such tables are hidden or at the bare minimum, not visible using the editor and its "New (Copy)" feature. If there is a means by which one could do a copy/paste of say the Alchemist's Discoveries table, its buried in the interface so deeply that only a programmer stands a chance of finding it.
So finally, being at wits end, I post this long and detailed account hoping someone can guide me to solving this problem. I think I anticipated any possible questions one might have, but if not I'll do my best to respond quickly and completely. Thanks for enduring the long read.