Ask the Experts - Locations and Regions

[AEIOU]

This is one of a series of posts wherein I'd like folks to chime in with what they've tried, what they would have liked but couldn't do and what they are doing now. Please feel free to add to the questions (and answers!)

What category would you use for the following?
• City
• Fruit stand
• Castle
• Ruins
• Lighthouse
• Major road between towns

What category would you use for the following? Would you use containers and/or tags?
• Well-known inn in the wilderness
• Well-known inn in a village
• Well-known inn in a large city
• Well-known inn in the Hollow Hills
• A city in the Hollow Hills on the border of two nations
• A city in the Hollow Hills in continent/zone map 2 of 8 (assume 8 maps make up the continent)
• A river that crosses multiple continent/region zones
• A dungeon beneath a city in a forest in the Hollow Hills within the Grand Duchy

 

[AEIOU]

The first set is fairly straight forward if we use the guidance LW has provided:
• City - community
• Fruit stand - merchant
• Castle - adventure area
• Ruins - adventure area
• Lighthouse - location
• Major road between towns - region:geographical

 

[Viking2054]

Castle could also be a community (wilderness castle where everyone lives inside it's walls) or location if it's inside a larger community (long established with a city that has grown up around it).

City can also be an adventure area in my opinion. Lots of dark deeds could be happening on the streets at night, or even during the day.

 

[Acenoid]

Generally I would contain the following within topics "region:geographical:" & relevant community, adventure area, location etc...

• Well-known inn in the wilderness - location
• Well-known inn in a village - location
• Well-known inn in a large city - location
• Well-known inn in the Hollow Hills - location

Here I would also set the area as general location probably region:geographical or adventure area.

• A city in the Hollow Hills on the border of two nations - community
• A city in the Hollow Hills in continent/zone map 2 of 8 (assume 8 maps make up the continent) - community
• A river that crosses multiple continent/region zones - location (one in each region with the specifics for this area)
• A dungeon beneath a city in a forest in the Hollow Hills within the Grand Duchy - adventure area

Additionally I add tags for my adventures. So e.g. I need the following locations in Adventure01 / Chaper 03 I'll add a suitable tag. Then I filter it and just see the relevant areas. Areas that are rarely used are sent to the world almanach.

I also have for each city / main topic a list of links - some kind of index that only holds the most important stuff to find quickly.

However I did not work with RW extensively as others yet I think

 

[AEIOU]

@Viking 2054: You are of course correct. There are no set rules. But with several hundred towns and lots more NPCs, I feel a burning need for consistency.

This brings up another interesting question. Should we identify things the same way for a module and for a campaign setting? Modules are very granular and need to be able to define things precisely. Campaign settings are broad and often involve thousands of miles of terrain and hundreds of thousands of people (if not more). As I'd like to plop modules into campaigns, I'd argue for consistency but is that really the best method?

Generally I would contain the following within topics "region:geographical:" & relevant community, adventure area, location etc...

I've been debating whether to shift things into adventure areas. It breaks up alphabetical sorting. I've been opting for tags instead and filtering out the other stuff when necessary but I'm one of those "if it's out of sight, it might as well not exist" people so I'm not happy with the tag filtering solution.

• A river that crosses multiple continent/region zones - location (one in each region with the specifics for this area)

Sort splitting it into upper river and lower river? That's an interesting approach. Mountain ranges could be split that way too.

I also have for each city / main topic a list of links - some kind of index that only holds the most important stuff to find quickly.

I find this to be very useful as well. It's also a good place to collect NPC's or locations that don't have an actual Category entry like the 15 wait staff and cooks of a restaurant.

 

[jkthomsen9]

I find this to be very useful as well. It's also a good place to collect NPC's or locations that don't have an actual Category entry like the 15 wait staff and cooks of a restaurant.

I find it better to put minor npc's like the cook and wait staff of a restaurant on the restaurant page, as they will most likely only be encountered there. If they become more important, then make a separate entry for them.

 

[Teresa]

Sorry, this got a bit long. I'd say most options depend on how big and detailed the realm is, and how much you have to write, so instead of just details next to the tag I might add a full snippet to add more description... and get all the linking right there for whenever I need it.

What category would you use for the following?
• City: community
• Fruit stand: merchant
• Castle: location/adventure area or Region: urban (in community), or community - depending on size and depth of details
• Ruins: location/adventure area or Region: urban (in community), or community - depending on size and location
• Lighthouse: location/adventure area - depending on depth of details
• Major road between towns: location
PS: I find the "adventure area" name distracting for my personal purposes, so I created Building instead, butI suppose it is basically the same thing

What category would you use for the following? location/adventure area depending on depth of detail
Would you use tags? tags for type and size of building, region: political and/or geographical (general tag with more specific details, or vice-versa, ie tag: UK; detail: in London, England)
Would you use containers? yes, under its geographical region or subregion (and subsubregion, if needed) or community
• Well-known inn in the wilderness:
• Well-known inn in a village:
• Well-known inn in a large city:
• Well-known inn in the Hollow Hills:

What category would you use for the following? community
Would you use tags? tags for type and size of community, region: political and/or geographical (general tag with more specific details, or vice-versa, ie tag: border; detail: between A and B)
Would you use containers? yes, under its geographical region or subregion (and subsubregion, if needed)
• A city in the Hollow Hills on the border of two nations:
• A city in the Hollow Hills in continent/zone map 2 of 8 (assume 8 maps make up the continent):

• A river that crosses multiple continent/region zones:
1) Region: geographical (I actually created a new category only for rivers)
2) Tags as already mentioned, and just below the list of geographical region tags...
2a) ...I'd add a snippet with a table mapping main geographical and political regions and communities in its course, or put pins in a map (whichever is easier),
3) then create a container for rivers only

• A dungeon beneath a city in a forest in the Hollow Hills within the Grand Duchy:
1) Adventure area (Dungeon)
2) Tags for type: dungeon
2a) geographical region: Hollow Hills (Details: under city A in Forest B)
2b) political region: Grand Duchy (Details: next to the border with C)
3) contained: Continent > ?? > Hollow Hills > city, forest, dungeon // Political Regions > ?? > Grand Duchy

 

[Viking2054]

Just out of curiosity, why use the "adventure area" tag/descriptor? By that, I mean isn't everywhere in an RPG game an Adventure Area? And if everywhere is an Adventure Area then wouldn't it be redundant to label just a few things "Adventure Area"?

 

[Acenoid]

Just out of curiosity, why use the "adventure area" tag/descriptor? By that, I mean isn't everywhere in an RPG game an Adventure Area? And if everywhere is an Adventure Area then wouldn't it be redundant to label just a few things "Adventure Area"?

When I sort by campaigns I label an adventure area and contain various items within it that are of different type. This "overrides" the usual sorting where I would have to put a merchant into "city/district/building/merchant for example.

However I am learning from campaign to campaign and probably things / sorting will still change a little here and there.

 

[rob]

Here are some of my thoughts on the discussion above. Please keep in mind that these are MY thoughts alone and there is no single way in which Realm Works has to be used. You'll also notice that my answer often depends on various factors. So that's something you'll need to consider for yourself as well.

City = Community
Always. I can't think of a situation where anything else would be appropriate.

Fruit Stand = Merchant
If something is being bought, sold, or traded, a merchant is what I'd always use. If the fruit stand is actually just a landmark for some other purpose, it could also be a simple Location.

Castle = Location or Adventure Area or Merchant or Region:Urban
It depends entirely on the role of the castle within the story. Is the castle an old ruins or a landmark in some way that won't otherwise being interacted with by the PCs? Then it's a simple location. Is it just a place where the PCs can meet with the local lord and maybe a member of his staff? It's a simple location. Is it the seat of local government, where business is transacted (e.g. permits secured) and that's it's sole purpose in the game? It's a merchant. Is it a place for the PCs to explore? For example, is infiltrating the castle an important task or is wandering the halls to find different people a key element of who things will play out? If so, it's probably an adventure area. However, if the castle is a sprawling area with extensive grounds that the PCs will wander and it's bustling with activity, then it could even be considered an urban region.

Ruins = Location or Adventure Area
It depends entirely on whether the PCs will explore the ruins or not. If so, then it's an adventure area. If not, it's a simple location. Oh, and if the PCs will explore the ruins, but there's only a single area to explore (e.g. the ruins of an old windmill), it's a simple location.

Lighthouse = Location or Adventure Area
As above, if it's simply an important navigation landmark, it's a location. If it's where the PCs will meet someone, it's a location. If the PCs will explore the lighthouse and maybe attempt to sneak in undetected to douse the light to cause a ship to sink, it's probably an adventure area.

Major Road Between Towns = Region:Geographical
I can't think of any other way I would represent a major road.

Well-Known Inn Anywhere = Merchant or Adventure Area
In almost every instance, an inn is a merchant. The PCs will securing lodging, get food, talk to people, etc. But it all will typically take place in the common area or in the abstract. An exception to this might be a situation where the PCs have to orchestrate a break-in to perform a kidnapping or something along those lines. In such a case, the inn would be an adventure area comprising multiple rooms and areas.

City in Assorted Places = Community
A city is a city is a city. It doesn't matter where it is. Therefore it's a community. The only question is whether it's large enough to warrant containing separate urban regions (e.g. districts).

River that Crosses Multiple Regions = Region:Geographical
A river is its own physical thing, distinct from the lands surrounding it. So it's an independent geographical region. It may wind it's way through numerous political regions and connect multiple geographical regions, but that's no different from a large land area that encompasses numerous political regions and connects multiple oceans.

A dungeon beneath a city in a forest in the Hollow Hills within the Grand Duchy = Mixture
The dungeon would be an adventure area. If it has multiple levels, each level would also be an adventure area. The city is a community (see above). The Grand Duchy would be a political region. For the other two, things get a little more interesting. The Hollow Hills would be a geographical region if they are a physical region of hills. However, if they are a small area of a mountain range where mining took place and the PCs will be venturing into the region to explore recent disturbances, they could very well be an adventure area instead. The forest might be a geographical region or it might be merely a label on the map. If the forest is of meaningful size or otherwise note, it probably justifies being a geographical region. If the forest is of no special note other than that dark green area on the map where the city happens to be, it might not warrant having any topic at all. This is entirely a judgement call, but there's no requirement to have a topic for everything. You need topics for anything that's important and bears detailing for your world. If it's unimportant or has no real details, you probably don't need a topic for it.

Hope this helps!

 

[rob]

As @jkthomsen9 indicated, I will often NOT have separate topics for minor NPCs and the like. Do you really need a full topic dedicated to the woman who runs the local bakery? If she's integral to the plot, of course you do. But if she adds color to the game and will only be found inside the bakery, just detail her within the bakery topic.

As a general rule of thumb, if you have only two snippets worth of story text for something, it doesn't justify having it's own topic IMHO. If you have a handful or more, it usually does justify it's own topic. For anything in between, it's really a judgement call. The basic question that you need to ask yourself is whether creating a separate topic entry will improve organization and access for you or if it will just add more clutter to the list of topics.

Oh, and if you need to create a link to Suzy who runs the local bakery in one place, you can very easily add an alias to the bakery for Suzy. That way, you can leave Suzy in the bakery topic and still use automatic link detection to hook up references to her from other topics.

 

[Bidmaron]

A couple of thoughts on this:
1) I make most rivers and roads a custom category called thoroughfare because it seems to me to be very useful to search for these separately. Plus, things that are ribbon-like I just have a hard time calling a region, which seems to be less one-dimensional.
2) I've been thinking for a long time that links should have the option to be more granular than just an entire topic, especially when the topic is huge. They should have two features:
a) You click on a link that isn't the name of a topic (an alias) and the program automatically highlights that word/phrase in the topic so you can easily find where the baker is buried in the topic.
b) You have the ability to target a link in a more specific way (like the '#' tack-on to a URL that places you at a specific spot in the topic).

 

[Dark Lord Galen]

A couple of thoughts on this:
1) I make most rivers and roads a custom category called thoroughfare because it seems to me to be very useful to search for these separately. Plus, things that are ribbon-like I just have a hard time calling a region, which seems to be less one-dimensional.
2) I've been thinking for a long time that links should have the option to be more granular than just an entire topic, especially when the topic is huge. They should have two features:
a) You click on a link that isn't the name of a topic (an alias) and the program automatically highlights that word/phrase in the topic so you can easily find where the baker is buried in the topic.
b) You have the ability to target a link in a more specific way (like the '#' tack-on to a URL that places you at a specific spot in the topic).

1-I do almost exactly the same thing! IMC Demi-human races do not define "borders" as their human community counterparts. The humans defining their control by road & lines on a map. The Demihumans ( elves, dwarves, ect) are more inclined to define their borders with more "permanent" features (ie mountain ridges, forest edges, swamps, etc). But from the human point of view a forest might overlap several "kingdoms".
2- I agree, though the best method for this I'm ignorant of.

 

[AEIOU]

Great answers and more variety than I expected.

@jkthomsen9 missed my meaning as did Rob on NPC's. Tracking and interacting with NPC's is going to be another topic to start discussions on hopefully next week in a similar format to cover a variety of situations.

@Teresa and @Rob your responses for locations were very interesting and insightful. The item I particularly found useful was Rob's explanation on locations vs adventure areas for things like a lighthouse with a clear indication that it's not etched in stone as a simple location could very well become a full-fledged adventure area at some point.

For others that are reading along, the Gencon 2014 video about packaging content is a goldmine of information. After watching, go back and pause the video and look at how things have been categorized.

 

[CorzatTheGray]

For others that are reading along, the Gencon 2014 video about packaging content is a goldmine of information. After watching, go back and pause the video and look at how things have been categorized.

Cannot agree more!!

I told my buddies to do the same after watching that video as they input their own realms.