• Please note: In an effort to ensure that all of our users feel welcome on our forums, we’ve updated our forum rules. You can review the updated rules here: http://forums.wolflair.com/showthread.php?t=5528.

    If a fellow Community member is not following the forum rules, please report the post by clicking the Report button (the red yield sign on the left) located on every post. This will notify the moderators directly. If you have any questions about these new rules, please contact support@wolflair.com.

    - The Lone Wolf Development Team

Alternate Powers and Drawbacks

E

Elfy

Member
hi =)

when you pick a power (blast 10 @ 20pp, for example), add a drawback on that power (Reduced Range 2 @ -2pp, for example), and then add an alternate power, the maximum cost of the alternate power doesn't reflect any drawbacks on the main power.

in the above example, the maximum cost of an alternate power should be (20-2=) 18pp, but the program shows it to be 20pp (and doesn't count the -2pp from the drawback) =(
 
I believe this is how it's intended to work by the designers. Drawbacks on a power don't affect how many points are available for alternate powers on that power.
 
are you sure? if i add a feat to the main power (except for the alternate power feat), it increases the points available to the alternate power(s). it seems strange that drawbacks would not do the opposite and lower the points available for the alternate power(s) =/

i found this on the att:

http://www.atomicthinktank.com/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=12489&p=#p173501

the example in this post reduces the points available by the cost of the drawback to the alternate powers. a two posts after, steve kenson doesn't say it's wrong.

i'm sure that drawbacks applied to a power are supposed to reduce the maximum points allowed for any of its alternate powers.
 
Last edited:
This is, unfortunatly, one of the points where the rules requires some time to get fixed.

Making an alternate power from a generic power gave a point total equal to the original power final cost including all the modifiers (Power Feats, Extras, Flaws and Drawbacks), except the all the eventual Alternate Power feats and the eventual Dynamic modifiers.

While the Array Power Structure gave a total of 2 points per rank without counting the modifiers.
 
Colen, have you had a chance to find out which way is correct from Green Ronin? Maybe I'm wrong about it, but I'd really like to know 8)
 
Last edited:
The way we do it is based on answers from GR from the early days of the files. The reason it doesn't subtract from the points available to alternate powers is because the drawback isn't really on the power; it's a drawback on the hero as a whole, which is applied to a certain power. We just allow you to add it directly to the power for convenience.
 
Colen said:
The way we do it is based on answers from GR from the early days of the files. The reason it doesn't subtract from the points available to alternate powers is because the drawback isn't really on the power; it's a drawback on the hero as a whole, which is applied to a certain power. We just allow you to add it directly to the power for convenience.
Click to expand...

It seems clear in Ultimate Power (on page 106) that power drawbacks are on the power, just like a reverse power feat.

"Some drawbacks (see Drawbacks, M&M, page 124) are power drawbacks, meaning they apply to a particular power rather than necessarily to the character. You can think of power drawbacks as the reverse of power feats: minor limits on the power. A power can have a total value in drawbacks equal to 1 point less than its total cost (so the power must cost at least 1 power point, regardless of how many drawbacks it has).
Power drawbacks decrease the actual cost and value of a power. This is important for things like Array and Variable structures, which are limited by the number of power points they have to allocate. So a power with 20 points worth of effects (including modifications from extras and flaws), a power feat, and a –2 point power drawback has a total cost of 19 points (20 + 1 – 2), meaning, among other things, it fits “inside” a 20-point Array or Container."
 
Last edited:
Interesting, it sounds like it changed since the original conception of it. I'll email GR and see if I can get this clarified.
 
I have this, along with a few other things, on my list of stuff to email GR about. As soon as I have a chance to put everything together, I'll send it off and see what's what.
 
Speaking of alternate powers, the "alternate power as flaw" option doesn't seem to be calculating correctly.

I chose a rank 10 array (20pp) and Blast 10 (20pp) for the default power. I picked Emotion Control 9 as an alternate power (rank 9 + 1pf = 19pp). By choosing "alternate power as a flaw", any alternate powers cannot cost more than the base power before adding the flaw. So with the flaw, Emotion Control should not be able to be increased to rank 10 without a validation error, but Hero Lab doesn't show any errors until the rank exceeds 10 (since it was default PL 10) and I didn't get an error about too many power points for the array until I hit Emotion Control 20 (21pp with the alt power flaw).
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top