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Adept Ways DO NOT count as a Positive Quality or towards the MAX positive Qualities

Double-check which thread you linked to. That thread does not contain any official rulings, and I'm not even sure who you're saying made any semi-official post at all.
 
It's there, the Freelancer "Mystic" wrote the section in the S.G. relating to Adept Ways, note his comments.

Basically Adept Ways should never be treated as "Qualities" in any sense at all.

I hate having to post this stuff here but the fact is that Catalyst has totally dropped the ball on any new errata for over a year now.

That and the editing of their products is horrific to start with.

sigh
 
There is nothing in Mystic's post there to say that his opinion should have any extra weight - those posts do not say that he wrote that section. Also, all he does is confirm other posts. There is not a written out revision of the rules that covers exactly what does change and what does not change. Without specific language, I do not know the exact effects of the ruling, so I don't know how to implement it - I don't know if I'm missing anything else or if the exact phrasing means something different from the way this thread interprets it.
 
Ok I'll ask for an official post on the matter.

I understand you not wanting to change things based on what could be random interpretations.
 
Mathias said:
There is nothing in Mystic's post there to say that his opinion should have any extra weight - those posts do not say that he wrote that section. Also, all he does is confirm other posts. There is not a written out revision of the rules that covers exactly what does change and what does not change. Without specific language, I do not know the exact effects of the ruling, so I don't know how to implement it - I don't know if I'm missing anything else or if the exact phrasing means something different from the way this thread interprets it.
Click to expand...

He wrote those sections and confirms his intent. Also, it makes sense they would be separate since they function by empowering a specific class/category and changing it -- its exactly the same way SURGE, CFD, and the virus change you. Admittedly, this one is more spiritual but it still locks you in to said path once the quality has been taken.
 
As it improves your character, like any other positive quality, it should count towards the positiv quality limit as it is one.
 
Thrawn21 said:
As it improves your character, like any other positive quality, it should count towards the positiv quality limit as it is one.
Click to expand...

Only the author says it does not. And if the same logic applies than character's with SURGE and such should also be limited in this way, and they're not.
 
Yeah the author confirmed the intent that Adept Ways basically do not share any characteristics of Positive Qualities other than you pay karma for them.

They do not cost double post chargen and do not count towards your Positive Quality karma limit.

I'm trying to get Mystic to post this in a clearer fashion so Matthias can do something about it but right now the Srun tabletop forums are effectively down due to a malware insertion on their site that Catalyst has yet to do anything about.

It's really hard to fathom how these guys stay in business quite frankly.
 
Also note that author intent does not mean what the developer will finally go with. Catalyst has the option to use all, some, or none of what the author gives them if the developer doesn't think it fits. I know stuff like this happens a lot with Paizo as well (as I'm friends with a number of their freelancers/writers). So at the time the author wrote it, he may have intended for it to be one way, but Catalyst decided differently after they had it in their hands.
 
Yup that's all true AndrewD2.

Except Catalyst really doesn't seem to have any idea what the rules SHOULD be.
They haven't released any errata in over a year and their books are riddled with editing errors that the freelancers who wrote same sections call out as errors and omissions.

So much that it's literally impossible to divine the author's intent on how a rule should work for much of the game (see Riggers, Deckers and Technomancers).

Basically Catalyst is shoveling tripe at their fans as quickly as they can publish without actually spending the time to ensure that things are even marginally correct/balanced/understandable/playable.
 
While I don't disagree on any particular point, the most we can really do is speculate on these things. And it isn't particularly productive.

Arguing and complaining about what Catalyst is or is not doing to correct or clarify mistakes isn't going to affect change, especially on these forums, for HeroLab. The only thing applicable to the program would be if clear and relevant clarifications of a rule were forth-coming. Which, as has been pointed out, comments by the freelancer originally responsible for the Adept Ways does not necessarily qualify. It is a start, but not technically an official response.


My suggestion to resolve this particular issue for the time being, is to add this as another house-rule. We already have one that makes the Ways "Qualities" cost the x1 karma cost during post char-gen. Perhaps we could also add one that makes the Ways not count toward the Positive Quality maximum.

This way, people that want to follow use these suggestions by the freelancer could do so, and those that want to adhere strictly to what is in the book can do so as well. I believe technically, right now, the Missions community, for example, does not follow these rules. Although the Missions FAQ is more frequently added to, so a new take on this rule might be coming up in a revision.

On the same note, if an official ruling is released (after this has been implemented as a house rule in HeroLab) that confirms this as the actual rule, I would suggest that the house rule and official implementation simply be reversed. At this point, there are likely plenty of groups that are using the Ways as Qualities and following the basic limitations of such as they stand. And I know from experience that there would be plenty of groups that would continue to do so even with an official errata.
 
Speaking of this... I think its a bug but if you buy a STREET GANG as a contact, it counts towards your maximum number of qualities (and I don't think anywhere in the rules it says that is a thing). Someone might want to report it.
 
Polecat said:
Speaking of this... I think its a bug but if you buy a STREET GANG as a contact, it counts towards your maximum number of qualities (and I don't think anywhere in the rules it says that is a thing). Someone might want to report it.
Click to expand...

That is perfectly fine as it it. From Run Faster page 177:
Selecting and organizational contact is a little different than choosing other contacts. Treat the Karma spent at character creation for an organizational contact as part of the expenditure for positive qualities, making it part of the limit that can be spent on qualities.
Click to expand...
 
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