Activating Special Abilities

[Fuzzy]

Is there a way to activate special abilities and have the effects shown? In my example case, I'm talking about the Magus' Arcane Pool. Currently, the only thing it seems to do in HL is calculate/track the pool points, and alter the name to show the bonus is WOULD apply. I see no way to actually apply the bonus. I can manually add an adjustment to the Adjust tab, and it is reflected on the weapon, though it shows as 'untyped bonus'. Shouldn't there be, from the In-Play tab, a way to have the ability be activated, use a charge, show up in the Activated Abilities section, and automatically apply the appropriate bonus to the weapon?
Also, in trying to add the adjustments manually, I don't see a way to add special weapon traits to a weapon. I can add the Attack and Damage modifiers, but I see no way to add other traits (Keen, Vorpal, etc) as temporary adjustments.
As a workaround, i could create a magic weapon with the appropriate bonus, and switch to it when required, but then I'd have to create a different item for each potential choses special trait (5th level or higher magi can choose a special trait to add to their sword).
Am i missing an option somewhere? Is this just an incomplete implementation?

 

[ShadowChemosh]

As a workaround, i could create a magic weapon with the appropriate bonus, and switch to it when required, but then I'd have to create a different item for each potential choses special trait (5th level or higher magi can choose a special trait to add to their sword).

Pretty much this is the answer. As you must be using the software at the game you can easily change the "special" ability the weapon has. You just click on the Hammer/Wrench icon (Win/Mac) and you can remove say flaming and add cold. Or upgrade the weapon from +1 to +2.

You can also do the same thing on the iPad app also. So basically the ability to handle the Arcana is their in HL its just not found on the "in-play" tab.

 

[Fuzzy]

Pretty much this is the answer. As you must be using the software at the game you can easily change the "special" ability the weapon has. You just click on the Hammer/Wrench icon (Win/Mac) and you can remove say flaming and add cold. Or upgrade the weapon from +1 to +2.

You can also do the same thing on the iPad app also. So basically the ability to handle the Arcana is their in HL its just not found on the "in-play" tab.

I have not actually used it at the table yet, don't have an iPad, and since they don't seem to be creating either a web based or android based interface, that's not really an option for me. I just found it odd that the in-play tab HAS an activated abilities section, and didn't find a way to activate the ability. Is there an example of an ability that does use this tab?

I've seen you have some add-on that gives a lot more adjustment options, does that contain a way to add weapon enhancements beyond +1-5? Like the Keen or what-not? I'd like to see if it's possible to create a special adjustment for this, so that if i DO decide to use this during play, I can simply turn it on or off.

 

[Aaron]

An example of an activated ability turned on and off there is the Barbarian's Rage ability.

 

[ShadowChemosh]

I have not actually used it at the table yet, don't have an iPad, and since they don't seem to be creating either a web based or android based interface, that's not really an option for me. I just found it odd that the in-play tab HAS an activated abilities section, and didn't find a way to activate the ability. Is there an example of an ability that does use this tab?

I guess I am totally confused here then. If your not using a laptop or iPad at the game then NO option that deals with a software solution is any good to you. Whats the point as paper can't turn things on/off.

I assumed if you where asking for this option then you used HL at the game. I mean even if the ability became something you could activate whats the point if you have paper? That or I am some how missing some important detail to your question.

In that case your ONLY option when using paper is to have the same weapon listed multiple times. Set to different "possible" uses and then drop them to the ground so that they don't take up weight on your character.

This is what I often did even for a Ranger say and I wanted the values pre-calculated for say Favored Enemy. I would list the greatsword twice with 1st being normal and 2nd time being the values for when I am fighting my Favored Enemy.

I've seen you have some add-on that gives a lot more adjustment options, does that contain a way to add weapon enhancements beyond +1-5? Like the Keen or what-not? I'd like to see if it's possible to create a special adjustment for this, so that if i DO decide to use this during play, I can simply turn it on or off.

You can't add Keen or what not through and adjustment. It gets a bit technical about Things and Picks but it can't currently be done by myself.

Though like above even if it could its only useful if your using HL at the game table.

 

[Fuzzy]

I would LIKE to use it at the table, so i trial out the various options with each character i create. Once I feel it's actually worth it, I might do so. If turning a very common ability on and off is going to take longer than doing it on paper, then it isn't worth it. I figure for the $75 I've spent so far, i should see if I could actually use all the features in it. Currently, it just doesn't seem to really fully support tabletop play, short of an initiative tracker.

The one thing HL is very good at is the math and logic of the very complicated pathfinder ruleset. The shame is, most of that math/logiv is only useful to print out statically on paper. I'm hoping to find the missing links that would allow it to go the next step. I really wish it had a web api that could turn things on and off, and report the calculated results out. That way 3rd parties could create a true tabletop tool that could be used by the entire group. It could track states, durations, initiatives, etc. Become a near virtual tabletop, minus the virtual part. All these great data sets and the scripts and bootstraps and such are great, but making and actually using them dynamically would be of SO much more value.

I was not intending to make this a rant - i was simply asking about this one particular use case. I just find it disappointing that, while the program is absolutely the best character generator out there, with just a little more added, could easily be so much more.

 

[ShadowChemosh]

I would LIKE to use it at the table, so i trial out the various options with each character i create. Once I feel it's actually worth it, I might do so. If turning a very common ability on and off is going to take longer than doing it on paper, then it isn't worth it. I figure for the $75 I've spent so far, i should see if I could actually use all the features in it. Currently, it just doesn't seem to really fully support tabletop play, short of an initiative tracker.

In such a case what your asking is 100% possible. You add a "Custom" weapon on the "Weapon" tab. Then you can easily modify it (click on the Wrench/Hammer icon) to become +1 to +2 or +1 with Flaming for when you use your Arcana. Unless I am missing something what your needing to do is easily/quickly change a Longsword into a +1 Flaming longsword or +1 Keen Longsword is built right into HL.

The only difference is that you will be handling these changes on the Weapon Tab instead of the "In-Play" tab.

 

[Fuzzy]

In such a case what your asking is 100% possible. You add a "Custom" weapon on the "Weapon" tab. Then you can easily modify it (click on the Wrench/Hammer icon) to become +1 to +2 or +1 with Flaming for when you use your Arcana. Unless I am missing something what your needing to do is easily/quickly change a Longsword into a +1 Flaming longsword or +1 Keen Longsword is built right into HL.

The only difference is that you will be handling these changes on the Weapon Tab instead of the "In-Play" tab.

Right, I already figured i could do that. I was just trying to make it work with the built-in In-Play system. I figure if I want to use an ability, it makes sense to do that from the ability.

So what is preventing boostrapping picks onto weapons? Would there be another way to duplicate the effect of the pick in the ability's eval scrips by altering the crit range field of the weapon itself? There'd be some issues, such as the fact that it 'doubles' the existing range, so you'd have to make sure the weapon wasn't already keen, to avoid doubling the doubling.

To me the bigger issue would be how to select the weapon from the Activated Abilities portal. Or more specifically, how to select both the item AND the ability to add. It looks like, in my experiments, that the Activated Abilities portal only shows the first 'Select From...' list, and not the second. If you add an ability that uses both selections, the 2nd IS recognized (as the ability remains red because the 2nd options is not chosen), but it is not shown. Same for Array-Based Menu's.

 

[Mathias]

The key is that the item powers need to run their own scripts. You can't use a script to add something else that needs to run scripts.

Yes, a proper solution to all the item-modifying/item-creating powers is on the to-do list, such as Magus weapons, Paladin weapons, the Wooden Weapon revelation, etc. There will most likely be an edit button added to the in-play tab/adjustment tab that, when clicked, will take you to the weapon, and there, you'll see a special table that only shows you the item powers that can be added by this ability, and an incrementer that allows you to add additional bonus enchantment levels to the weapon, and proper enforcement of the number of points you're allowed to apply and the combinations you're allowed to apply.

I'm sorry that we have not had enough time to implement this feature yet. It is still on our to-do list.

 

[Fuzzy]

well, I've only worked with trying to implement keen so far, and it seems like the script on the weapon is still running, just not by adding the pick. If, however, i assign Helper.Keen to the weapon with my ability, It does properly modify the threat range properly - though I couldn't find where in the the timing it does so. My test script is running at Pre-Attributes 10000, and it seems to be working so far. Can't really complete it though, as I can't choose the weapon AND the bonus type because of the above mentioned bug where usrChosen2 is not visible in the UI.

so far what I've done:
- I created a replacement for the cMagArPool Class Special that is identical to original, but Bootstraps in my new Custom Ability.
- The new ability (currently) assigns Helper.Keen to the selected weapon. Ideally, it would go through usrChosen2 to choose how to assign the weapon, but that's not possible yet.

This is my ability currently working 'add keen to selected weapon' script:

  <thing id="cFUZMagWE" name="Arcane Weapon Enhancement" description="Test of Arcane Pool Weapon Enhancement" compset="CustomSpec" summary="Add Enhancing trait to a held weapon" uniqueness="unique">
    <fieldval field="shortname" value="Arcane Enhancement"/>
    <tag group="SpecSource" tag="arHdMagus"/>
    <tag group="User" tag="Activation"/>
    <tag group="AbilType" tag="Super"/>
    <tag group="fShowWhat" tag="WeaponsMel"/>
    <tag group="ChooseSrc1" tag="Hero"/>
    <eval phase="PreAttr" priority="10000">doneif (field[abilActive].value = 0)
doneif (field[usrChosen1].ischosen = 0)

[COLOR="Red"]perform field[usrChosen1].chosen.assign[Helper.Keen][/COLOR]</eval>
    </thing>
  <thing id="cFUZArPool" name="Arcane Pool (new)" description="At 1st level, the magus gains a reservoir of mystical arcane energy that he can draw upon to fuel his powers and enhance his weapon. This arcane pool has a number of points equal to 1/2 his magus level (minimum 1) + his Intelligence modifier. The pool refreshes once per day when the magus prepares his spells.\n\nAt 1st level, a magus can expend 1 point from his arcane pool as a swift action to grant any weapon he is holding a +1 enhancement bonus for 1 minute. For every four levels beyond 1st, the weapon gains another +1 enhancement bonus, to a maximum of +5 at 17th level. These bonuses can be added to the weapon, stacking with existing weapon enhancement to a maximum of +5. Multiple uses of this ability do not stack with themselves.\n\nAt 5th level, these bonuses can be used to add any of the following weapon properties: {i}dancing{/i}, {i}flaming{/i}, {i}flaming burst{/i}, {i}frost{/i}, {i}icy burst{/i}, {i}keen{/i}, {i}shock{/i}, {i}shocking burst{/i}, {i}speed{/i}, or {i}vorpal{/i}. Adding these properties consumes an amount of bonus equal to the property&apos;s base price modifier (see Table 15-9 on page 469 of the {i}Core Rulebook{/i}). These properties are added to any the weapon already has, but duplicates do not stack. If the weapon is not magical, at least a +1 enhancement bonus must be added before any other properties can be added. These bonuses and properties are decided when the arcane pool point is spent and cannot be changed until the next time the magus uses this ability. These bonuses do not function if the weapon is wielded by anyone other than the magus.\n\nA magus can only enhance one weapon in this way at one time. If he uses this ability again, the first use immediately ends." compset="ClSpecial" summary="New Arcane Pool" replaces="cMagArPool">
    <tag group="User" tag="Tracker" name="Modern Action Points" abbrev="Modern Action Points"/>
    <tag group="AbilType" tag="Super" name="Supernatural Ability" abbrev="(Su)"/>
    <tag group="Usage" tag="Day" name="/day" abbrev="/day"/>
    <bootstrap thing="cFUZMagWE"></bootstrap>
    <eval phase="PreAttr" priority="10000"><![CDATA[
      field[listname].text = field[thingname].text & " (+" & field[xIndex].value & ")"

      ~only run the rest for the first copy
      doneif (tagis[Helper.FirstCopy] = 0)

      ~ If we're not shown, just get out now
      doneif (tagis[Helper.ShowSpec] = 0)

      ~we count as having the arcane strike feat for the purpose of prereqs
      perform hero.assign[HasFeat.fArcStrike]

      field[trkMax].value += maximum(round(field[xAllLev].value/2,0,-1),1) + #attrmod[aINT]

      field[abValue].value += field[xCount].value

      field[livename].text = field[thingname].text & " (+" & field[abValue].value & ")"]]></eval>
    </thing>

 

[Fuzzy]

There's two ways i can work around the dropdown issue. I can forgo choosing the weapon, and only choose the weapon that is equiped (it only works on a held weapon), and then have the single dropdown used for choosing what power to add, or I can create a new ability for each available power, and bootstrap each on, which might clutter up the in-play screen.

Actually, come to think of it, I will likely have to go with multiple abilities, as you can spend a crap load of pool points if you want and add multiple powers to the weapon, so I'll need one for the weapon enhancement, and one for each of the 10 powers.

 

[ShadowChemosh]

Just cause I do this with my programmers sometimes I have to ask if the amount of work is worth it just to not have to change to the weapon tab?

If so my advice is to make a "Weapon, Magic" Thing with all 10 powers bootstrapped to it but set with a bootstrap condition. This then would not make the Power Live unless a specific tag was found on the hero. To make things easy each "Item Power" has a pre-created tag called "HasAbility.XXXXX" where "XXXX" is the unique ID of the item power. So Keen Item Power is HasAbility.iKeen.

Then when say you activate "Keen" you assign the tag HasAbility.iKeen to the hero at say First/400.

perform hero.assign[HasAbility.iKeen]

Then set the bootstrap condition up like this:

Change PolyAdjust.Scent to be whatever your custom tag is like "HasAbility.iKeen" and add "hero#" in front. This is because you have a gizmo and we have to force the check to be on the hero not the gizmo.

hero#HasAbility.iKeen

Now when you activate Keen the Keen Power becomes live and its scripts will correctly affect the "Weapon, Magic".

 

[Fuzzy]

Just cause I do this with my programmers sometimes I have to ask if the amount of work is worth it just to not have to change to the weapon tab?

If so my advice is to make a "Weapon, Magic" Thing with all 10 powers bootstrapped to it but set with a bootstrap condition. This then would not make the Power Live unless a specific tag was found on the hero. To make things easy each "Item Power" has a pre-created tag called "HasAbility.XXXXX" where "XXXX" is the unique ID of the item power. So Keen Item Power is HasAbility.iKeen.

Then when say you activate "Keen" you assign the tag HasAbility.iKeen to the hero at say First/400.

perform hero.assign[HasAbility.iKeen]

Then set the bootstrap condition up like this:
View attachment 2848
Change PolyAdjust.Scent to be whatever your custom tag is like "HasAbility.iKeen" and add "hero#" in front. This is because you have a gizmo and we have to force the check to be on the hero not the gizmo.

hero#HasAbility.iKeen

Now when you activate Keen the Keen Power becomes live and its scripts will correctly affect the "Weapon, Magic".

How is that less work than duplicating an ability 9 times and altering it to set the correct tag on a weapon? And the reason I would want to keep this on the In-Play tab is because that's where it belongs. It's really the only place where normal in-play temporary selections belong. I, personally, find the pressure against this concept very odd, and wonder if you have your programmers make similar decisions in a user interface issue just because doing it right might take a couple more steps.

 

[ShadowChemosh]

How is that less work than duplicating an ability 9 times and altering it to set the correct tag on a weapon? And the reason I would want to keep this on the In-Play tab is because that's where it belongs. It's really the only place where normal in-play temporary selections belong. I, personally, find the pressure against this concept very odd, and wonder if you have your programmers make similar decisions in a user interface issue just because doing it right might take a couple more steps.

OK then. I am stepping out of this thread. Have fun!!!!!

 

[Fuzzy]

So I went a slightly different approach to avoid the drop down issue. I hadn't realized there were two activation checkboxes available, so instead of choosing which equipped weapon to enchant, i've gotten rid of the drop down's completely, and gone with 2 checkboxes (one for the main hand weapon, one for the off-hand weapon). The names of the checkboxes adjust to include the sbName of the equipped weapon. I have a validation rule to only have a single box checked at a time for a given ability. Still, this ends up being 11 abilities on the in-play tab, but they fit well. Just working through actually fleshing out each ability's scripts (things like Flaming Burst adding not only it's ability, but also that of flaming, which it includes).

So, before I get to it, the 'main' Arcane Pool usage from level 1 is to provide a basic enchantment to the weapon (+1 per 4 levels) that is stacked on top of any inherent bonus in the weapon, caped overall at a +5 weapon enchantment. I'm not overly familiar with the macros in HL, so i just want to verify that the standard bonus macro is not going to work with this stack, right? I'm thinking, if I had a +2 sword, and added a +3 arcane pool enchantment using the normal bonus method, I'd end up with a +3 sword, not +5 as it should be. So I'm going to just have to read the existing bonus, add whatever bonus arcane pool gives, cap it at +5, and then write it back, correct?

 

[Aaron]

You're correct. The Macro only applies the higher of it's own value or the existing value.

 

[claudekennilol]

I know this is a super old thread, but does anyone have a working way of doing this? I just spent hundreds of dollars on HL and have only put 3 characters in and they all have some form of this ability. It's really saddening to see that this isn't covered out of the box.

 

[Farling]

I know this is a super old thread, but does anyone have a working way of doing this? I just spent hundreds of dollars on HL and have only put 3 characters in and they all have some form of this ability. It's really saddening to see that this isn't covered out of the box.

The modifiers are listed in the popup tooltip because they are situational. The "in-play" tab would get way too long if every single situational modifier were to be listed in there, and then there'd be issues with forgetting to switch off the modifier (especially in cases where they only apply on the first attack or other such limited situations).

 

[claudekennilol]

The modifiers are listed in the popup tooltip because they are situational. The "in-play" tab would get way too long if every single situational modifier were to be listed in there, and then there'd be issues with forgetting to switch off the modifier (especially in cases where they only apply on the first attack or other such limited situations).

I'm sorry but did you even read the topic? This isn't a situational modifier, it's a basically toggle-able specific ability that lasts a minute. How is this any different and/or worse than other abilities that have a checkbox that are built into some classes that last only one round? What's the point of having some toggle-able abilities but not others that alter the stats of your character? You're just supposed to let HL do it automatically for some but have to memorize the rest? That's extremely counter intuitive.

I've found ShadowChemosh has a plugin for this in pathfinder community pack that handles it for Magus, so it's a moot point by now. It doesn't handle it for Warpriests or Occultists, though. But it gives me enough info to know what to do to go about adding it on my own.

 

[ShadowChemosh]

I'm sorry but did you even read the topic? This isn't a situational modifier, it's a basically toggle-able specific ability that lasts a minute. How is this any different and/or worse than other abilities that have a checkbox that are built into some classes that last only one round? What's the point of having some toggle-able abilities but not others that alter the stats of your character? You're just supposed to let HL do it automatically for some but have to memorize the rest? That's extremely counter intuitive.

I've found ShadowChemosh has a plugin for this in pathfinder community pack that handles it for Magus, so it's a moot point by now. It doesn't handle it for Warpriests or Occultists, though. But it gives me enough info to know what to do to go about adding it on my own.

One reason to not bring up old threads as its very confusing on what "didn't" work and what does work now.

I am in this thread from years ago saying it can't be done yet I now have the feature built into the community pack. The software has been enhanced over the years and as new features go into the Binary program what was once not possible now becomes possible.

So the basic reason is that when the classes/weapon enchantments where first built the HL engine couldn't deal with some rules that now it can.