5th ed. are Adept ways, qualities?

[shadowstarr]

I recently seen the discussion brought back up on the shadowrun forums about if adapt ways are qualities.

http://forums.shadowruntabletop.com/index.php?topic=19863.0

this implies that ways differ from normal qualities in that they do not count against the positive quality limit at creation, nor do they cost double karma in post creation.

Is this legit and if so will it be patched into hero lab?

thank you for your time.
-SS

 

[Mathias]

Forum discussions are not official rulings. If this is made an official ruling and put in a location that I can make a permanent link to, then I will apply it.

Until then, the header of the this section, on pg. 176 of SG is "New Adept Qualities: Ways", so they're qualities.

 

[adzling]

This has been confirmed by the developers.

Ways are NOT doubled cost post Chargen, although they do contribute to the positive Quality limit in Chargen.
Weird.

 

[Mathias]

Do you have a link to this confirmation?

 

[adzling]

let me try and dig it up and post here

 

[Dinendae]

Do you have a link to this confirmation?

It just got reposted by Gibralter: http://forums.shadowruntabletop.com/index.php?topic=22267.0

"We called Adept ways qualities to limit their spending at character creation, but Ways are a journey for character and the cost should not double after character creation. Like Initiation, it's a way for characters to progress after creation. And like Martial arts, there are smaller "steps" of improvement that are connected to ways. I'm not sure this helps with Hero Lab, but the intent is layers of progression allowable for characters to spend karma on as they continue to grow."

 

[Mathias]

Okay, hidden in some random thread, by a person whose sig doesn't identify them as a developer, with nothing in the thread to say "This is a rules change, not just my statement of what I intended the rules to mean".

This is why these forum rulings frustrate me. If I made this change and someone who wasn't on the forums submitted a bug report that it was now wrong, what could I defend the change with? What about that says that it's an official rules change? And where's the permanent reference that won't get destroyed by link rot.

 

[Mathias]

Based on this, what I'll do is to add an optional rule that will discount the adept ways if turned on. If there's an official Street Grimoire FAQ that makes this a rules change, I can remove the optional rule and make it always work that way.

 

[adzling]

hang on here's the official update in this thread this morning:

http://forums.shadowruntabletop.com/index.php?topic=22267.0

this is about as official as it gets (Giabraltar wrote that section of S.G.).
thanks

 

[adzling]

I agree 100% Mathias, this is super frustrating and no way to run a business.

Catalyst has almost zero organized structure however and this about the best we can expect from them.

Okay, hidden in some random thread, by a person whose sig doesn't identify them as a developer, with nothing in the thread to say "This is a rules change, not just my statement of what I intended the rules to mean".

This is why these forum rulings frustrate me. If I made this change and someone who wasn't on the forums submitted a bug report that it was now wrong, what could I defend the change with? What about that says that it's an official rules change? And where's the permanent reference that won't get destroyed by link rot.

 

[adzling]

Hey Mathias, one more Ways correction Giabraltar validated later in the same thread:

Way of the Burnout, when taken post-chargen, does not require the expenditure of Karma but rather it requires you lose 2 or more essence to Cyberware, Bioware etc modification.

 

[Dinendae]

Based on this, what I'll do is to add an optional rule that will discount the adept ways if turned on. If there's an official Street Grimoire FAQ that makes this a rules change, I can remove the optional rule and make it always work that way.

Unfortunately experience with 4th Edition has taught me that you'll get blood from a stone easier than getting errata for Shadowrun. They are very slow to put out errata, and when they do it generally doesn't cover everything that needed to be covered and/or is confusing. Once that errata is out, even if more is desperately needed to that book, it will take far longer to see (if at all).

It's a shame, as I love the game system and setting. From what I understand their Battletech franchise doesn't have half of these problems with errata and clarifications.

 

[adzling]

that's cause Randall is a battletech fanatic Dinendae.
Srun is all about the benjamins for Catalyst.

 

[Mathias]

I'm writing the FAQ entry about the new optional rules now. Does anyone know Giabralter's real name? I can't find anything on the Catalyst forums that tells me that.