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muzzyman1981
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Old November 25th, 2008, 05:54 PM
The Space Wolves need to have their shotgun profile updated to reflect the new shotgun profile in the Space Marine Codex.
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Ghaz
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Old November 25th, 2008, 06:36 PM
From the Codex Dark Angels FAQ:

Quote:
Q. There are a number of cases where things with the same name have different rules or characteristics in Codex Space Marines and Codex: Dark Angels, such as the different transport capacity for the Land Raider. There are also a number of new items of equipment in the Space Marines Codex that are not this one. Which version of the rules should I use, the latest version, or the one in Codex: Dark Angels?

A. Strictly, you should always use the rules from your own Codex, and this is the default solution you must use if you and your opponent can’t come up with a better one (you’ll find that this might be the case in tournaments, for example!).

However, always keep in mind the foreword we have written to all of the Errata and FAQ documents, as well as ‘The Most Important Rule’ described on page 2 of the Warhammer 40,000 rulebook, which states ‘… it is important to remember that the rules are just a framework to create an enjoyable game.

Winning at any cost is less important than making sure both players – not just the victor – have a good time.’ On this basis if an opponent asks you if it’s okay for them to use the latest version of the rules for a piece of equipment, or if they can use a new item from Codex: Space Marines in their own army, then you should say ‘Yes, of course you can!’ Please note that ‘The Most Important Rule’ cuts both ways, and because of this, if you feel that a piece of new equipment might spoil the game for your opponent by giving your own army an unfair advantage, then you are honour-bound not to use it.

As you can see, the nature of the Most Important Rule means that it’s impossible to give a black and white answer to any question that may arise; instead you and your opponent need to discuss things and come up with the answer that makes both of you the happiest, keeping in mind that having a good time is more important than gaining a small in-game advantage. If for any reason you can’t do this, then simply revert to the default of using the rules from your own Codex.
Codex Space Wolves has it's own profile for the shotgun in the summary near the back of the codex, hence that is the profile that the datafiles use.
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muzzyman1981
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Old November 26th, 2008, 12:33 PM
I would like to say that the Dark Angels FAQ does not apply to us, although I do understand what you are trying to say with that reference.

However, according to our Codex on pg 2 under the heading Using the Army Lists, it says our Codex is to be used in conjunction with the Space Marine Codex. Not only that but on pg 14 it says that while we pick from the Space Wolves Armory, the descriptions of our weapons (with the exceptions for Space Wolf only weapons such as Rune Staff or a Frost Blade) come from the Space Marine Codex. The Summary in the back of the Space Wolf Codex is only there to provide a reference from the original source so that we don't have to keep flipping back and forth between Codexes.

*EDIT* I also just recieved an email from J. Spencer of the Game Workshop "AskYourQuestion" email service and he as well says that all Space Wolf weapon profiles come from the Space Marine Codex, and that the Space Wolf reference sheet is ignored. I can forward the email if you like.
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Ghaz
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Old November 26th, 2008, 01:12 PM
1) Yes, the FAQ does apply. Just because it's from the Dark Angels FAQ doesn't mean you can ignore it. It goes to show GW's intentions in cases where codices have identical items with different stats and that is you use the rules from your own codex.

2) This is not one of the times you use Codex Space Marines as Codex Space Wolves already has the stats. You only use Codex Space Marines when specifically directed to do so.

3) Roolzboyz are NOT official. Only the rules and GW's official FAQs are taken into consideration when making a decision.
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muzzyman1981
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Old November 26th, 2008, 01:28 PM
That's what the reference was to our Codex, it specifically directs us to use the Space Marine Codex when getting the full descriptions of the weapons that are not Space Wolf specific, this I believe includes weapon profiles.
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harkan
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Old November 26th, 2008, 10:47 PM
OK, on the SW armoury page it states that common items that are classed as common between both books are marked in italics in the list. The shotgun is not on the armoury list and is not in italics on the page. The next line where it refers to the summary is in relation to items listed on that page and in italics, again the shotgun is not in italics.

Hence, the GW precedent which has been mentioned in other places as well, not just the DA FAQ quoted above, states that if an item has a stat line in the relevant codex, in this case the SW codex, then this takes precedent over the SM book or parent codex. As the shotgun has a stat line in the summary in the SW book then this takes precedent.

As to the GW Rules Reply team - they are notorious for giving different answers that at times disagree with their own FAQs.

Due to the above then unfortunately the SW shotgun will remain the same. If the shotgun was listed in the armoury in italics then you would have a point, unfortunately, as noted, it doesn't. This is yet another case of GW not doing their job properly

thanks
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muzzyman1981
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Old November 27th, 2008, 03:59 AM
Well it's all good, I added it myself since everyone I've talked to including the tourney organizer has said I can take it. Thanks for evaluating everything, including the fact the Space Wolf codex is I believe 8 years old.
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