weekly updates - another broken promise?

so I just checked the weekly update thread and there has been no update for 12 days and counting

if i go through its history so far we get a disturbing trend
post 2, 1 day late
post 3, on time!
post 4, on time!
post 5, on time! (looks good here right?)
post 6, 3 days late
post 7, on time but no update
post 8, on time, no update
post 9, on time, beta update
post 10, 4 days late, no update
post 11, on time no update
post 12, 3 days late
post 13, 6 days late - no update
post 14, 6 days late - no update
post 15, 3 days late

so far most "updates" have been late and/or not actually provided an update, and no linking to a release announcement is not an update on what your working on.

and before someone gets critical of me for being picky about this, but if that was me at work (and for the record I'm a software developer) if that was my track record of updates on a project i was working on, I would be asked to justify why I should keep my job.

its really not that hard to give a decent update on time.

Look I get you and, as a project manager, I'd certainly be out of a job as well but this is a marked improvement after better than a year of next to no news and the only news we did get was, to be polite, put offs from people who clearly didn't have any idea what was going on or weren't telling us the truth.

kbs666 said:

Look I get you and, as a project manager, I'd certainly be out of a job as well but this is a marked improvement after better than a year of next to no news and the only news we did get was, to be polite, put offs from people who clearly didn't have any idea what was going on or weren't telling us the truth.

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While I understand your sentiment, my biggest gripe is they made a commitment to give us updates, and even when they give us a post, most of the time there is no update. just more excuses as to why its not progressing, and that's if we even get an update.

Personalty, I'm at the point where I'm not accepting anymore excuses over this product, its time for lone wolf to deliver results, and when they make a commitment to something to stick to it and not expect the community to excuse them for not meeting it.

I have spent more then I care to admit on lone wolf products over the years, and if this is how they are going to treat the customer base, I personally will be looking for alternatives to there products in the future. All they have show is that they cant be trusted to deliver what they say they will produce, even a simple weekly forum post has proven to much for them to deliver.

An update, even if there is nothing new to report, is exactly what we asked for! Sometimes, there is nothing new of substance to report. Of course I'd rather hear that they're making great progress, but I'm happy to hear anything. So that part is fine.

However, they have surely been slipping in regards to "regular updates, every Monday." We usually get one, and better late than never. But Mondays as promised would be even better .

It is just like the Dalai Lama says:

Expectation is the death of Happiness.

I agree 100% with Philderbeast.
I also have been monitoring the updates and looked this morning and saw the last update was 12 days ago but I didn't want to say anything because I don't want to sound negative.
But I must agree, the updates have shared little information and when they did offer information it wasn't much on the progress of Content Market, but some of them focused on the 64-bit switch.
While switching to 64-bit is a much needed improvement it's not what the majority of people are waiting for. We are waiting for the promised Content Market that's now YEARS in the making with excuse after excuse.

And now in the latest update you notice they give a date like end of this month or within 2 weeks. they now say "we’re hopeful we’ll have good news for everyone in the very near future. "
Define near future - 1 month, 2 months, 3 months, 1/2 year, etc..

If you sort post's by replies and ignore the top sticky posts, my post I created http://forums.wolflair.com/showthread.php?t=58633
on June 21st, 2017 is the top post with over 720+ replies.

I started to enter the data manually end of last year for a new campaign I was going to start, Curse of the Crimson Throne and was hoping to have CM before end of 2018 and purchase this data package.
As of now, I've stopped entering the data manually because it takes too much time and I need that time to prepare for my campaign since it's now started.

I've basically using the book and the only thing I use the laptop for is quick searches of the pdf's of my books.

I don't even log into Realm Works because I don't see a point too.

Speak for yourself. Many of us care very little for the CM and care greatly about almost everything else. I've long tried to convince LWD that the CM wasn't the revenue they were after. At this point all the Paizo stuff they've held up launching the CM is for a dead system. They could have launched the CM without Paizo and been bringing in whatever revenue they could while waiting for Paizo to get its own digital act together and at the very least giving their existing users, most of which are pretty obviously homebrew campaign builders, the features we want and need.

Have to go KBS666 on that...

Much rather have had calendars, improved snippet sharing, etc.!

Personally, more info would be nice, whatever happens doesn't really matter though because it's just an aid for a game.

#firstworldproblems

We got the 64bit, all old and annoying bugs fixed and several quality of life enhancements that significantly improved the content formatting speed. I don't care for the CM as it will not contain any of the systems I play. I want more features in the product and even more flexibility in converting content, moving data and importing/exporting stuff.

I think LWD is too tied to Paizo to have taken kbs666's tact.

For myself personally, RealmWorks meets my needs and I'm not struggling with any bugs. Sure, there are features I would like to see added, mainly calendars, but nothing to prevent me from using it.

At the same time other similar products are getting better and better. Most are online only, so I worry about lock in, and I can't imagine the work it would take to migrate my homebrew world or Rappan Athuk, but if I choose to start a new campaign, it looks like there may be other options in future.

I don't see the point in getting upset about a software developers update schedule. Most of us got exactly what they said we would get at the time we bought it and LWD has a generous trial period.

If another product comes along with as good or better features for my needs as RealmWorks, I'll consider moving my next campaign to it. But it certainly isn't going to be because of lack of updates on a forum.

Besides, any update I would actually care about would have an upgrade prompt when I fire up the software. Getting updates on their continued struggles with Paizo and personal illnesses doesn't help me. I don't see the point of them.

Valyar said:

I don't care for the CM as it will not contain any of the systems I play. I want more features in the product and even more flexibility in converting content, moving data and importing/exporting stuff.

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Not to be too pedantic here but I'm in the same boat - I don't care about the CM - HOWEVER, it seems that all the great enhancements are contingent on the CM getting finalized first. LW is prioritizing it for some reason before we can get that stuff, or so it appears.

So paradoxically, we're all rooting for the CM to just get released already so we can see other enhancements get their day in the sun regardless of whether we're going to use it.

dungeonguru said:

Not to be too pedantic here but I'm in the same boat - I don't care about the CM - HOWEVER, it seems that all the great enhancements are contingent on the CM getting finalized first. LW is prioritizing it for some reason before we can get that stuff, or so it appears.

So paradoxically, we're all rooting for the CM to just get released already so we can see other enhancements get their day in the sun regardless of whether we're going to use it.

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A thousand times this!

kbs666 said:

the CM wasn't the revenue they were after. At this point all the Paizo stuff they've held up launching the CM is for a dead system. They could have launched the CM without Paizo and been bringing in whatever revenue they could while waiting for Paizo to get its own digital act together and at the very least giving their existing users

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I disagree with this in part. DnDB and Fantasy Grounds have proven that there is a high demand for pre-entered content. So much so that it shocked the developers to a certain extent. The Master Tier on DnDB is a whopping $454.15 but people are still buying it in droves and then paying a subscription on top of that.

The Paizo issue is significant though. It was the right decision at the time but the market has shifted. The Pathfinder community is split and decreased significantly in terms of market share. LWD simply could not move fast enough to keep up with 5e though and have missed that boat it would seem. Sadly. There's still significant money to be made there for a few years at least.

LWD can absolutely make money off the CM. But they need to remain flexible and fast. Two things which don't appear on their resume currently.

Speak for yourself... At this point all the Paizo stuff they've held up launching the CM is for a dead system.

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I mean no disrespect here, and am not trying to start ANY sort of edition war. But please speak for YOURself. You are correct that PF is losing market share. And that no NEW pre-published stuff is coming out for PF (Classic). But there are lots of us still playing it, buying published content that we don't have yet, and making our own stuff. Speaking for MYself - the only person for whom I really have the right to speak - I got tired of learning a new system every four or five years, and of shelling out hundreds of dollars for them - only to turn around and do it all again. When Paizo launched PF I decided that it was the last d20 system in which I'd invest. Luckily for me, there's enough out there for it that even if I never made anything for myself or dipped into 3rd party stuff I could play new to me PF stuff until the day I die.

For those playing 5e, PF2, M&M, Savage Worlds, HERO (actually I do play those last two, along with Fate) - I sincerely hope that RW and any other tools you want get developed for those games! But - again repsectfully - please don't be hatin' on PF just because you want something else. There's room for everyone, and in the end all of them are games, meant for entertainment and escape.

Finally, I will repeat my first point from before and then I'll shut my pie hole . We asked for updates EVEN WHEN THERE WAS NO NEW INFORMATION. So it seems counterproductive to then complain when some of those updates tell us the at there is no new information.

kbs666 said:

Speak for yourself. Many of us care very little for the CM and care greatly about almost everything else.

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I agree. I don't care about CM.
The only reason for which I hope they will finally do it, is that i hope that after that they will concentrate on things that really matter for me.

Maidhc O Casain said:

I mean no disrespect here, and am not trying to start ANY sort of edition war. But please speak for YOURself. You are correct that PF is losing market share. And that no NEW pre-published stuff is coming out for PF (Classic). But there are lots of us still playing it, buying published content that we don't have yet, and making our own stuff. Speaking for MYself - the only person for whom I really have the right to speak - I got tired of learning a new system every four or five years, and of shelling out hundreds of dollars for them - only to turn around and do it all again. When Paizo launched PF I decided that it was the last d20 system in which I'd invest. Luckily for me, there's enough out there for it that even if I never made anything for myself or dipped into 3rd party stuff I could play new to me PF stuff until the day I die.

For those playing 5e, PF2, M&M, Savage Worlds, HERO (actually I do play those last two, along with Fate) - I sincerely hope that RW and any other tools you want get developed for those games! But - again repsectfully - please don't be hatin' on PF just because you want something else. There's room for everyone, and in the end all of them are games, meant for entertainment and escape.

Finally, I will repeat my first point from before and then I'll shut my pie hole . We asked for updates EVEN WHEN THERE WAS NO NEW INFORMATION. So it seems counterproductive to then complain when some of those updates tell us the at there is no new information.

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Let me be clear, I'm not shifting from PF1 any time soon. I have way too much invested in it and absolutely hate PF2. 5e might be a viable alternative but switching my entire campaign over would just be too much work.

But I cannot see LWD or any of the other digital vendors selling a lot of additional content for PF1 going much past this year.

kbs666 said:

But I cannot see LWD or any of the other digital vendors selling a lot of additional content for PF1 going much past this year.

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This might be true. I hope not .

But even if it is, just for myself the things they've already said are coming out will be enough to last me for years at my current rate of play. I play almost exclusively on an online forum, posting rates are (at best) about one a week per player and GM. So RotRL and Razor's Edge alone would probably last me until I expire of old age .

In the meantime, I use RW for building my own worlds. I'll probably never run a game in them, or use them in a story or novel, but I still have fun putting them together, and RW is a near perfect tool for organizing them.

Even if LWD never does another thing it's still a great tool for me, I want that to be very clear. My main campaign world is in RW and I cannot imagine ever migrating it. It's just too big and complicated. I might someday export the whole thing to a website just to let others see it but I cannot imagine doing session prep in another tool at this point.

kbs666 said:

But I cannot see LWD or any of the other digital vendors selling a lot of additional content for PF1 going much past this year.

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Our group is, I suspect, one of many that has invested a lot of money in PF1 over the years. We have no desire to try, then invest heavily in a new system. With the adventure paths, which can take us 6 - 9 months or more to complete, there is plenty of already published material to keep us playing for a really long time! This, in my opinion, will still generate a decent income stream for probably years to come, as I am (still - and for the foreseeable future) absolutely prepared to pay for the convenience of having the adventure paths entered for me.