Pre-Order Rise of the Runelords for Hero Lab

[Villadelfia]

Originally Posted by charlieluce

I have to admit that I'm not clear on how far "you don't need the packages" goes. I get that you don't need any extra packages to run the encounters in the AP, but what about things like the items that the PCs will gain as loot? What about things like setting-specific Traits for the PCs, or unusual creatures introduced for familiars or animal companions or mounts?

Aren't AP items and campaign traits already in hero lab as part of the core package?

EDIT: Yeah, just double-checked, they're already in hero lab under adventure paths as part of the core package. And they can't just remove them as that feature is publicly advertised on the web page: Feats, items, prestige classes and other player content from the Pathfinder Adventure Paths, and similar content from all the old OGL adventure paths.

[charlieluce]

Ah, right. Yeah, I wouldn't expect that to change.

[Colen]

Yes, player content for adventure paths will still be included for everyone, just like it is now.

[Silveras]

I'll just point out a couple of things.

I have been concerned for a while that the Community Portfolios are on the grey-area edge of legal action. The OGL does not include specific creature names, place names, and plot elements... which are part and parcel of the portfolios in some cases. That means that the portfolios are re-publishing Paizo's intellectual property without written permission. There may be some argument that it falls under the Paizo's Community Use Policy, and I don't pretend to be a lawyer to say whether it does or it doesn't.

However, the existence of an "official" package means it is part of a licensing deal with Paizo. For the Community to continue to publicly distribute a free alternative challenges that Intellectual Property much more directly, and probably no longer falls under any valid Community Use Policy protection (if it ever did anyway).

So, the existence of a publicly hosted competitor to the officially licensed is most likely a target that would force Paizo and/or LoneWolf to litigate... because some of the applicable laws amount to "if you don't take action, you lose your right to the property".

So, I see removing the Community Packs as being a protective thing for the Community.

[Villadelfia]

Originally Posted by Silveras

I'll just point out a couple of things.

I have been concerned for a while that the Community Portfolios are on the grey-area edge of legal action. The OGL does not include specific creature names, place names, and plot elements... which are part and parcel of the portfolios in some cases. That means that the portfolios are re-publishing Paizo's intellectual property without written permission. There may be some argument that it falls under the Paizo's Community Use Policy, and I don't pretend to be a lawyer to say whether it does or it doesn't.

However, the existence of an "official" package means it is part of a licensing deal with Paizo. For the Community to continue to publicly distribute a free alternative challenges that Intellectual Property much more directly, and probably no longer falls under any valid Community Use Policy protection (if it ever did anyway).

So, the existence of a publicly hosted competitor to the officially licensed is most likely a target that would force Paizo and/or LoneWolf to litigate... because some of the applicable laws amount to "if you don't take action, you lose your right to the property".

So, I see removing the Community Packs as being a protective thing for the Community.

So we just need to rename the files from "A2 - Bleak Grove.por" to "A2.por" and rename monsters like "Karzoug" to "Human Transmuter Wizard 20". That can be done, in fact, I will volunteer my time to do it if asked.

This is the same reason some feats are not on d20pfsrd under their actual name.

EDIT:

I have looked up the Community Use Policy, it specifically states: You may descriptively reference trademarks, proper names (characters, deities, artifacts, places, etc.), locations and characters from products listed in Section 1 of our Community Use Approved Product List at paizo.com/communityuse/products, provided it is clear that these are our marks.

All APs are listed in that list. So as long as that page lists the requisite copyright notice we're allowed to keep it up.

[AndrewD2]

The only real question on that is that its stored on d20pfsrd which can no longer use the community use policy anymore. Would its situation extend to the files stored on the site?

[Villadelfia]

Wasn't that only on pages where they are advertising for their own competing products?

If not, we can rehost them.

EDIT: Or move them over to the d20pfsrd sister site pathfindercommunity which is allowed to use the community use policy.

[ValaraukarU]

Originally Posted by Silveras

I'll just point out a couple of things.

I have been concerned for a while that the Community Portfolios are on the grey-area edge of legal action. The OGL does not include specific creature names, place names, and plot elements... which are part and parcel of the portfolios in some cases. That means that the portfolios are re-publishing Paizo's intellectual property without written permission. There may be some argument that it falls under the Paizo's Community Use Policy, and I don't pretend to be a lawyer to say whether it does or it doesn't.

Note that Paizo was specifically contacted before portfolios with their AP encounters were publicly shared. I personally contacted them for CotCT about the names and the images and was denied permission on the images but the rest was allowed.

[liz]

Hey everyone, my brain was fried last night, so I didn’t have a chance to put my thoughts into coherent words until now. To quell any misconceptions or rumors, here’s Lone Wolf’s stance on community versions of Rise of the Runelords and any future Adventure Path packages we release:

The community support for our products has been great. We're incredibly thankful for the many users that have put together the data packages in the past and continue to do so today. (Seriously, you all are awesome.)

Over the past few years, we've received a lot of feedback from users, frustrated that they need to purchase all of the independent sources just to run the community Adventure Path packages. In an ideal world, we would have been able to support all of the Adventure Paths from the beginning and this would be a moot point. However, we lacked both the technical capabilities within the product and the bandwidth as a staff until recently, so we had to wait.

Extensive user feedback was the main reason we included official Adventure Path support as an option on our recent survey. The survey respondents overwhelmingly confirmed that users were looking for a package like this and that the $24.99 price point was appropriate. Since users will not be required to own the supplemental packages, the official Adventure Path package will greatly simplify running adventure paths for many users. As with almost every situation, though, there's no simple solution here that will please everyone. When that occurs, our focus becomes the majority of users.

In keeping with our goal of simplifying things for users, we want to limit the user confusion that would arise from seeing two different options when users come to our official Lone Wolf community forums. As evidenced with the community packs, there's already a degree of confusion for many users, and that’s with only a single set of options available. This situation is much better than in the past, in large part because we've worked closely with ShadowChemosh to better support his amazing efforts and route users to his packages as directly as we can. However, it remains a recurring problem.

This confusion is unfortunate, but it’s for unofficial content, so users understand for the most part. However, once we begin selling Rise of the Runelords and future Adventure Paths, users will be relying upon us to avoid unnecessary confusion. That means providing a single source for the AP content. As can be seen from numerous user comments on this subject, the majority of users view this as a good thing.

If members of the community want to privately PM users with links to the files because someone asks about them, or post a link on other forums, go right ahead. We just want to avoid prominently confusing users on our official Lone Wolf venues.

I hope this clarifies things. If you have specific questions, feel free to PM me directly.

[liz]

Regarding the Community Use Policy: As @ValaraukarU mentions, Paizo has apparently been okay with files on d20pfsrd.com in the past. While we're not the official source on anything regarding this, nothing that we're doing here changes anything regarding the Community Use Policy and d20pfsrd.com.