decks

Well, I got all the downloadable decks. This is a great service, and I thank you and Scry for doing it for us.

I was wondering why none of the sets include all the decks. I can understand if the game isn't supported yet like with MLB and NFL, but what about the Star Wars and other decks? I'm sure there's a good reason they are missing, I was just wondering what that reason is.

Also, I wanted to comment on how they are downloaded. Having them all in a one-lump-some seems a strange way to do it. What about those who don't play a certain game, or who only want a single, specific deck? I guess we can always go in a delete any we don't want, but that would take extra time, along with the time taken to dl them [esp. on dialup] and the extra decks' file size can add up quickly on older PCs. I would ask that first, there be a separate mechanism for downloading decks, or at least a special button within the current mechanism to allow you to switch over to where the decks are. Then, there should be a button for each game system that will take you to the decks for that system, and THEN you can dl each deck separately as you wish. I don't know how terribly complicated this would be for you to add, but it would make things a lot simpler and better for the user.


Thank you for your time,

--Kyle Turner
emperor799@earthlink.net


"You're out of your mind!"
"That's between me and my mind" -- Firefly




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At 02:48 PM 4/12/2003 -0400, you wrote:
>Well, I got all the downloadable decks. This is a great service, and I
>thank you and Scry for doing it for us.



>I was wondering why none of the sets include all the decks. I can
>understand if the game isn't supported yet like with MLB and NFL, but what
>about the Star Wars and other decks? I'm sure there's a good reason they
>are missing, I was just wondering what that reason is.

There are three reasons that come to mind for why a particular deck isn't
included:

1. Data files aren't working properly. This is the case with the Harry
Potter files still. The author said he was in the middle of moving across
country shortly after V1.1 came out. We're still waiting for him to post
the fix to the HP files so they work correctly with V1.1.

2. Missing cards. The Reflections 3 set hasn't been added to the Star Wars
(Decipher) data files yet. The omitted deck used cards from this set, so we
couldn't produce the deck.

3. Glitch in the data files. The Warlord files were reporting an erroneous
validation error on a legal deck. Instead of including a legal deck that
claims to be invalid, we omitted it.

All of the deck collections have a version number. Once problems are
resolved with specific decks, the collection can be updated to include the
new deck. There also may be a mistake in the creation of a deck, in which
case we'll get it corrected (just like data files).

>Also, I wanted to comment on how they are downloaded. Having them all in a
>one-lump-some seems a strange way to do it. What about those who don't
>play a certain game, or who only want a single, specific deck? I guess we
>can always go in a delete any we don't want, but that would take extra
>time, along with the time taken to dl them [esp. on dialup] and the extra
>decks' file size can add up quickly on older PCs. I would ask that first,
>there be a separate mechanism for downloading decks, or at least a special
>button within the current mechanism to allow you to switch over to where
>the decks are. Then, there should be a button for each game system that
>will take you to the decks for that system, and THEN you can dl each deck
>separately as you wish. I don't know how terribly complicated this would
>be for you to add, but it would make things a lot simpler and better for
>the user.

Having the ability to select individual decks would require a fair bit of
additional work. Allowing each deck to be installed into different places
would require a significantly larger amount of work. Providing the
handholding that you are describing would be even MORE work.

The original plan was to have users manually download each deck for use in
CV. Our thinking was that partner sites will be coming online soon, and
thry will allow individual dekcs to be searched for and retrieved. The
partner sites will typically provide all the services you describe and a
good bit more.

Unfortunately, we realized that the manual download would have been a huge
hassle for users. We decided to add the deck collections to the import
mechanism to eliminate the lion's share of the hassle for users. Then we
had to figure out how to add it. The choice was to either drop other
functionality that was added in V1.1 (to provide extensive download
functionality), keep the deck collection handling simple (and delay release
a small amount), or omit integrated support for deck collections
altogether. We opted for the simple handling.

So what we now have is a usable solution that lacks the bells and whistles.
If it become an important feature to users, we can extend the functionality
in a future update.

Here's an explanation of why we went with deck collections instead of
individual decks....

Having the decks individually listed would be unwieldy (and it would entail
a LARGE download just to get the LIST). The collections aren't all that
large (110KB on a 56BK modem is well under a minute). Since the average CV
user plays four different games, the user would have to individually
identify and download 4-8 decks (depending on how many decks for a given
game were in each set). This would easily take as much (and probably more)
time than downloading a single collection and quickly deleting the decks
not wanted. You'll note that we made sure to prefix all the deck files with
the game system for easy grouping and identification (and deletion). Given
that a large percentage of users have faster connections (with more all the
time), downloading a collection is faster yet compared to individual
downloads. So the collection method is definitely the quickest and easiest
solution overall.

Hope this helps,
Rob

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Lone Wolf Development www.wolflair.com


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>>>There are three reasons that come to mind for why a particular deck isn't included...

Ah, ok. Now I understand. So they can be updated in the future. Okay.

>>>You'll note that we made sure to prefix all the deck files with the game system for easy grouping and identification (and deletion).

Yes, I did note that. Smart thinking on your part. This would be much simpler than putting a deck folder under each game system as was previously suggested. Could you add some code to make it so when you name a deck and save it, CV automatically puts a precursor in for that specific game system? Either way, your going to need standardized code for the various game systems. I noticed one Warlord deck was preceded by "Warlords", while another with "WL" Also, SW will need to be changed to SW CCG or SW TCG depending on which is used for the deck. Also Magic should probably be switched to MTG as I believe there were a few short-lived CCGs whose names also started with Magic, and datafiles could be added for them in the future. Anyway, good thinking on your part. I was already putting prefixes before my decks 8>}

>>>Having the decks individually listed would be unwieldy...

Hmm, ok. For now, how about each game system having their own deck set that is updated as new decks are added? This would make things a lot simpler for the time being.



--Kyle Turner
emperor799@earthlink.net


"You're out of your mind!"
"That's between me and my mind" -- Firefly


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At 04:50 PM 4/12/2003 -0400, you wrote:
> >>>You'll note that we made sure to prefix all the deck files with the
> game system for easy grouping and identification (and deletion).
>
>Yes, I did note that. Smart thinking on your part. This would be much
>simpler than putting a deck folder under each game system as was
>previously suggested. Could you add some code to make it so when you name
>a deck and save it, CV automatically puts a precursor in for that specific
>game system? Either way, your going to need standardized code for the
>various game systems. I noticed one Warlord deck was preceded by
>"Warlords", while another with "WL" Also, SW will need to be changed to SW
>CCG or SW TCG depending on which is used for the deck. Also Magic should
>probably be switched to MTG as I believe there were a few short-lived CCGs
>whose names also started with Magic, and datafiles could be added for them
>in the future. Anyway, good thinking on your part. I was already putting
>prefixes before my decks 8>}

Hmmm. I guess we could use the folder name for the game system from the
data files. That would probably work reasonably, and it would ensure that
all games are unique, since folder names can't be re-used. The downside is
that a few folder names aren't necessary the best for public viewing. But
it can probably be lived with. I'll put this on the todo list.

As for the inconsistencies you pointed out, I'll have to rap Ed on the head
for that one.

> >>>Having the decks individually listed would be unwieldy...
>
>Hmm, ok. For now, how about each game system having their own deck set
>that is updated as new decks are added? This would make things a lot
>simpler for the time being.

The list of ALL updates is downloaded in one shot. That includes product
updates, data file updates, deck collections, and anything else (e.g. skin
sets when that mechanism gets officially published).

You clipped the most important detail about NOT having individual decks in
your quoteS. Specifically, my parenthetical remark "it would entail a LARGE
download just to get the LIST". Since you're on a dialup, I don't think you
want to incur 500-1000 bytes of download for EVERY SINGLE DECK that gets
released through the updates. With just the 4 collections currently
available, the total updates download would almost triple in size. In a few
months, when there are dozens of collections available (that's the plan, at
least), just downloading the LIST of updates would take you 10 minutes! I
don't think that's quite what you had in mind.

So the collections need to stay as collections.

Thanks, Rob

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Rob Bowes (rob@wolflair.com) (559) 658-6995
Lone Wolf Development www.wolflair.com


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>Hmm, ok. For now, how about each game system having their own deck set
>that is updated as new decks are added? This would make things a lot
>simpler for the time being.

The list of ALL updates is downloaded in one shot. That includes product
updates, data file updates, deck collections, and anything else (e.g. skin
sets when that mechanism gets officially published).

You clipped the most important detail about NOT having individual decks in
your quotes. Specifically, my parenthetical remark "it would entail a LARGE
download just to get the LIST". Since you're on a dialup, I don't think you
want to incur 500-1000 bytes of download for EVERY SINGLE DECK that gets
released through the updates. With just the 4 collections currently
available, the total updates download would almost triple in size. In a few
months, when there are dozens of collections available (that's the plan, at
least), just downloading the LIST of updates would take you 10 minutes! I
don't think that's quite what you had in mind.

So the collections need to stay as collections.

**************************************************

Sorry, I wasn't clear. By deck sets, I meant deck collections. Just that, instead of grouping them like "Scry #65" and "Scry #66", you could have deck collections for each game system. Like "MTG Decks" or "SW TCG Decks" that are updated as new decks for that game system are added. This would keep a smaller number of deck collections, and make it better for the user. Also, in the filename for decks, you could add a tag for where the deck came from after the name, like "MTG Sliver Shivers - Scry #68" that way credit would still go where it was due, and that would be better for the user also, as I (at least) will want to pull out that issue of Scry and read the article on that deck. A tag like that would be VERY helpful.




--Kyle Turner
emperor799@earthlink.net


"You're out of your mind!"
"That's between me and my mind" -- Firefly


----- Original Message -----
From: Rob Bowes
To: cardvault@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, April 12, 2003 5:04 PM
Subject: Re: [CardVault] decks


At 04:50 PM 4/12/2003 -0400, you wrote:
> >>>You'll note that we made sure to prefix all the deck files with the
> game system for easy grouping and identification (and deletion).
>
>Yes, I did note that. Smart thinking on your part. This would be much
>simpler than putting a deck folder under each game system as was
>previously suggested. Could you add some code to make it so when you name
>a deck and save it, CV automatically puts a precursor in for that specific
>game system? Either way, your going to need standardized code for the
>various game systems. I noticed one Warlord deck was preceded by
>"Warlords", while another with "WL" Also, SW will need to be changed to SW
>CCG or SW TCG depending on which is used for the deck. Also Magic should
>probably be switched to MTG as I believe there were a few short-lived CCGs
>whose names also started with Magic, and datafiles could be added for them
>in the future. Anyway, good thinking on your part. I was already putting
>prefixes before my decks 8>}

Hmmm. I guess we could use the folder name for the game system from the
data files. That would probably work reasonably, and it would ensure that
all games are unique, since folder names can't be re-used. The downside is
that a few folder names aren't necessary the best for public viewing. But
it can probably be lived with. I'll put this on the todo list.

As for the inconsistencies you pointed out, I'll have to rap Ed on the head
for that one.

> >>>Having the decks individually listed would be unwieldy...
>
>Hmm, ok. For now, how about each game system having their own deck set
>that is updated as new decks are added? This would make things a lot
>simpler for the time being.

The list of ALL updates is downloaded in one shot. That includes product
updates, data file updates, deck collections, and anything else (e.g. skin
sets when that mechanism gets officially published).

You clipped the most important detail about NOT having individual decks in
your quoteS. Specifically, my parenthetical remark "it would entail a LARGE
download just to get the LIST". Since you're on a dialup, I don't think you
want to incur 500-1000 bytes of download for EVERY SINGLE DECK that gets
released through the updates. With just the 4 collections currently
available, the total updates download would almost triple in size. In a few
months, when there are dozens of collections available (that's the plan, at
least), just downloading the LIST of updates would take you 10 minutes! I
don't think that's quite what you had in mind.

So the collections need to stay as collections.

Thanks, Rob

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rob Bowes (rob@wolflair.com) (559) 658-6995
Lone Wolf Development www.wolflair.com



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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> Also, in the filename for decks, you could add a tag for where the deck
came from

Wow, do you really want a deck named, "WWE Rock's As Nasty as He Wants to
Be - Game Players' Network 15Apr03"?

I don't.

And I could argiue that faction is more important thasn source, and what
about the author...

The essentials are the game and the deck.

The author, appearance, faction, etc., all appear in deck notes or keywords.
When sites get Partner Site funtionality operational, you'll be able to
search by source, faction, etc. This includes Scrye (spelled with an E).



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> >Either way, your going to need standardized code for the
> >various game systems. I noticed one Warlord deck was preceded by
> >"Warlords", while another with "WL"

We do. I'll publish it here shortly. The "Warlord" was a relic.

> > Also, SW will need to be changed to SW
> >CCG or SW TCG depending on which is used for the deck.

SW or SWD

> >Also Magic should
> >probably be switched to MTG as I believe there were a few short-lived
CCGs
> >whose names also started with Magic,

Nope. The Complete Scrye Catalog goes from magi-Nation to Magic to Middle
Earth.

I generally tried to make the abbrevs like what people say whenever
possible, so long as we didn;t exceed four or five letters. So people play
"L5R" and "40K" and "Magic"

> As for the inconsistencies you pointed out, I'll have to rap Ed on the
head
> for that one.

Hey! It was a relic! I'll issue an update! (ducks and covers)





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> Also, in the filename for decks, you could add a tag for where the deck
came from

Wow, do you really want a deck named, "WWE Rock's As Nasty as He Wants to
Be - Game Players' Network 15Apr03"?

I don't.

And I could argiue that faction is more important thasn source, and what
about the author...

The essentials are the game and the deck.

The author, appearance, faction, etc., all appear in deck notes or keywords.
When sites get Partner Site funtionality operational, you'll be able to
search by source, faction, etc. This includes Scrye (spelled with an E).

****************************************

I'm not sure what you mean by faction or appearance. If there is a way to see, for instance, what issue of Scrye a certain deck is from, then that's good enough for me, though your example could be simplified to "WWE Rock's As Nasty as He Wants to Be - GPN".

Also, so I spelled Scrye wrong. Scry is an actual word after all


--Kyle Turner
emperor799@earthlink.net


"Let's face it, you can buy a bucket of hair at inflated prices on ebay." -- astral_drake




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> If there is a way to see, for instance, what issue of Scrye a certain
deck is from, then that's good enough for me

It's always the first keyword.

> Also, so I spelled Scrye wrong. Scry is an actual word after all

I know. Just pointing it out.


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> > Also, SW will need to be changed to SW
> >CCG or SW TCG depending on which is used for the deck.

>SW or SWD

Well, what about when datafiles are authored for the other 2 Star Wars Collectible Card Games? SWCCG, SWTCG, SWYJ, and SWJK would make the most since. I've already had problems with the SW/SWD codes, until I figured out which was which. IMHO, having more obvious names would make things much simpler for the user.


--Kyle Turner
emperor799@earthlink.net


"You're out of your mind!"
"That's between me and my mind" -- Firefly


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Deckbuilding:
So, will we be able to download precon decklists in the future? Like say, the 4 Magic Precons that come out with each expansion? This would be VERY cool, since otherwise, I have to enter all the cards manually for every precon in every game system.


Inventory:
Also, going back to something I brought up a while back, it would be very useful to be able o use batch edit or something to add a preconstructed deck or special set [Like Magic's Beatdown] to inventory in one click of a button. When you take into account how many of these special sets and precons are sold, it would be a very useful tool.


--Kyle Turner
emperor799@earthlink.net


"You're out of your mind!"
"That's between me and my mind" -- Firefly




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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I've never yeard people use "Star Wars" when speaking of these. I'd most
likely abbreviate them YJ and JK, although I'll listen to counterarguments.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kyle Turner" <emperor799@earthlink.net>
To: cv@support.wolflair.com
Sent: Saturday, April 12, 2003 3:43 PM
Subject: Re: [CardVault] decks


> > > Also, SW will need to be changed to SW
> > >CCG or SW TCG depending on which is used for the deck.
>
> >SW or SWD
>
> Well, what about when datafiles are authored for the other 2 Star Wars
Collectible Card Games? SWCCG, SWTCG, SWYJ, and SWJK would make the most
since. I've already had problems with the SW/SWD codes, until I figured out
which was which. IMHO, having more obvious names would make things much
simpler for the user.
>
>
> --Kyle Turner
> emperor799@earthlink.net
>
>
> "You're out of your mind!"
> "That's between me and my mind" -- Firefly
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> cardvault-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>


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> Also, going back to something I brought up a while back, it would be very
useful to be able o use batch edit or something to add a preconstructed deck
or special set [Like Magic's Beatdown] to inventory in one click of a
button. When you take into account how many of these special sets and
precons are sold, it would be a very useful tool.

Umm... Deck Screen, Tools, Add Deck to Inventory.


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Yes, but you would need the deck first.


--Kyle Turner
emperor799@earthlink.net


"You're out of your mind!"
"That's between me and my mind" -- Firefly


----- Original Message -----
From: Edward Bolme
To: cardvault@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, April 12, 2003 7:02 PM
Subject: Re: [CardVault] decks


> Also, going back to something I brought up a while back, it would be very
useful to be able o use batch edit or something to add a preconstructed deck
or special set [Like Magic's Beatdown] to inventory in one click of a
button. When you take into account how many of these special sets and
precons are sold, it would be a very useful tool.

Umm... Deck Screen, Tools, Add Deck to Inventory.



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At 06:55 PM 4/12/2003 -0400, you wrote:
>Deckbuilding:
>So, will we be able to download precon decklists in the future? Like say,
>the 4 Magic Precons that come out with each expansion? This would be VERY
>cool, since otherwise, I have to enter all the cards manually for every
>precon in every game system.

Most likely, yes. Please note that this is NOT an absolute, although it is
something I'd like to do.

>Inventory:
>Also, going back to something I brought up a while back, it would be very
>useful to be able o use batch edit or something to add a preconstructed
>deck or special set [Like Magic's Beatdown] to inventory in one click of a
>button. When you take into account how many of these special sets and
>precons are sold, it would be a very useful tool.

Assuming the decks are available for download, it's already only a few
mouse clicks to accomplish this.

Thanks, Rob

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rob Bowes (rob@wolflair.com) (559) 658-6995
Lone Wolf Development www.wolflair.com


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Doing it by each Scrye issue means that users will be downloading ONLY NEW
decks with each collection. Using your proposed method (assuming I
understand it correctly) would result in each user downloading a couple of
new decks and all of the decks they already have as part of each
collection. So the progression would be:

1. Download collection V1.0 - all 10 decks are new (pick a number)
2. Download same collection V1.1 - 2 new decks and 10 repeated decks
3. Download same collection V1.2 - 2 new decks and 12 repeated decks
4. Download same collection V1.3 - 2 new decks and 14 repeated decks
etc.

For someone on a dial-up connection (such as yourself), this would be
incredibly wasteful of your time. Consequently, ensuring each collection
contains only new stuff is the most efficient solution for the end-user.

I agree with your recommendation about identifying the source publication
in the filename, although not necessarily the issue number. Ed and I have
already discussed this a little bit.

Thanks, Rob

At 05:19 PM 4/12/2003 -0400, you wrote:
>Sorry, I wasn't clear. By deck sets, I meant deck collections. Just that,
>instead of grouping them like "Scry #65" and "Scry #66", you could have
>deck collections for each game system. Like "MTG Decks" or "SW TCG Decks"
>that are updated as new decks for that game system are added. This would
>keep a smaller number of deck collections, and make it better for the
>user. Also, in the filename for decks, you could add a tag for where the
>deck came from after the name, like "MTG Sliver Shivers - Scry #68" that
>way credit would still go where it was due, and that would be better for
>the user also, as I (at least) will want to pull out that issue of Scry
>and read the article on that deck. A tag like that would be VERY helpful.


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Rob Bowes (rob@wolflair.com) (559) 658-6995
Lone Wolf Development www.wolflair.com


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Decks

Any chance you could include the Mechwarrior Dark Age magazine
armies to the deck downloads?

M.

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Decks

We don't have that publication here, so we can't put the decks together at
the present time. However, if someone were to put the decks together and
send them to us, we could generate the deck collection and add it to the
updates.

-Rob

At 04:30 AM 4/17/2003 -0700, you wrote:
>Any chance you could include the Mechwarrior Dark Age magazine
>armies to the deck downloads?
>
>M.


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Lone Wolf Development www.wolflair.com


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Decks

Rob Bowes wrote:

> We don't have that publication here, so we can't put the decks
> together at
> the present time. However, if someone were to put the decks together and
> send them to us, we could generate the deck collection and add it to the
> updates.
>
> -Rob
>
> At 04:30 AM 4/17/2003 -0700, you wrote:
> >Any chance you could include the Mechwarrior Dark Age magazine
> >armies to the deck downloads?
> >
> >M.
>
I think he means the ones in Scyre.

--
Jim Williamson <jim@timewarpcomics.com <mailto:jim@timewarpcomics.com>>
TimeWarp Comics & Games
(973) 857-9788
www.timewarpcomics.com <http://www.timewarpcomics.com>



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Decks

Rob,

Sorry. I meant the Mechwarrior armies in Scrye.

As long as I'm on the subject, are there any plans to include the
decks/armies from InQuest as well?

Thanks,
M.

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