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Anpumes
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Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 57

Old April 15th, 2014, 12:00 PM
Man, I just keep running into problems with this monk archetype I'm working on... My problem now is that I cannot figure out how to get rid of the Monk Weapons listing under feats.

My first attempt was to check the box next to Monk Weapon Proficiencies (tagid: fDisable.fWepMnk) but this did nothing at all to effect the Monk Weapons feat listing. It remained persistent.

Next I looked at the various Monk archetypes that modify the monk's weapon proficiencies and found the Monk of the Empty hand to be promising with its code of:
First; 500
Code:
      doneif (islinkage[varies] = 0)

      ~ We don't get a Monk's normal weapon proficiencies
      perform linkage[varies].delete[WepProf.?]
      perform linkage[varies].delete[wGroup.?]

      ~ Except the Shuriken
      perform linkage[varies].assign[WepProf.wShuriken]
      perform linkage[varies].assign[WepProf.wShurikenM]
But, this did not work either. I even tried moving it to Final Phase; 10000 and higher without any effect whatsoever. Lastly on this step, I deleted the archetype off the hero I am experimenting on and added the Monk of the Empty Hand archetype to see if anything would happen. Low and behold, nothing did... The Monk Weapons feat listing persists.

Lastly, I decided to search the forums for an answer as I've exhausted my knowledge of the editor and places I can snag code from. I found what I thought would be a helpful post here: http://forums.wolflair.com/showthrea...hlight=fWepMnk which included the following code snippet:
First (Users); 500
Code:
perform linkage[varies].delete[fInclude.fWepMnk]
I tried this also at a couple of different timings and still, I cannot get anything to remove the Monk Weapons feat listing. Obviously, I'm doing something wrong somewhere but without more knowledge and a humble request for assistance, I'm afraid I won't win this battle...
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Aaron
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Old April 15th, 2014, 01:06 PM
The feat not disappearing with the fDisable tag is probably a bug, you should submit a report and I will take a look at it later in the week.

When moving a priority, think about what you are trying to accomplish. In this case you are trying to delete some tags before they are moved from the class to the hero, so moving it later seems unlikely to help.
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ShadowChemosh
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Old April 15th, 2014, 01:21 PM
The proficiencies are getting removed but not the feat that is bootstrapped. All you can do is use the Helper.FtDisable tag to disable the feat. The feat will stay but will be grayed out and will not display on the 'Special' tab or get printed. It will still get shown on the "Feat" tab.

You need to get that "tags" are different than "Things/Picks". A feat that is bootstrapped is a Pick on the hero and CAN NOT BE REMOVED. You can disable the pick and then the script on the feat should not run but you can not actually remove the feat (ie pick).

So the code you found is correctly removing the "Tags" that control what weapons the monk can use. The feat in this case is sort of outdated an no longer used for new classes. This is so that when proficiencies are changed you don't have a feat hanging around that is no longer valid.

So change the tags to be what you need and simply do a hero.child[XXXXX].assign[Helper.FtDisable] (change XXXX to be the unique ID of the feat) so that the feat does not get printed.

Hero Lab Resources:
Pathfinder - d20pfsrd and Pathfinder Pack Setup
3.5 D&D (d20) - Community Server Setup
5E D&D - Community Server Setup
Hero Lab Help - Hero Lab FAQ, Editor Tutorials and Videos, Editor & Scripting Resources.
Created by the community for the community
- Realm Works kickstarter backer (Alpha Wolf) and Beta tester.
- d20 HL package volunteer editor.
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Anpumes
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Old April 15th, 2014, 02:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron View Post
The feat not disappearing with the fDisable tag is probably a bug, you should submit a report and I will take a look at it later in the week.
Thanks, I'll submit it and see where it goes...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron View Post
When moving a priority, think about what you are trying to accomplish. In this case you are trying to delete some tags before they are moved from the class to the hero, so moving it later seems unlikely to help.
Timing is the one thing that continually screws me up. I've read many times that something has to happen around a certain timing and I sort of understand this but when trying to figure out why, I completely get lost. I just don't understand exactly what is happening at what timings or at what times things are supposed to happen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShadowChemosh View Post
The proficiencies are getting removed but not the feat that is bootstrapped. All you can do is use the Helper.FtDisable tag to disable the feat. The feat will stay but will be grayed out and will not display on the 'Special' tab or get printed. It will still get shown on the "Feat" tab.
On further looking, you are correct, the proficiencies are being removed as the archetype lists those in the weapon selection screens as "Not proficient with weapon," but only with the code I found and not by the fDisable.fWepMnk selection on the Archetype, Class Specials, Removed Weapon / Armor selection.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShadowChemosh View Post
You need to get that "tags" are different than "Things/Picks". A feat that is bootstrapped is a Pick on the hero and CAN NOT BE REMOVED. You can disable the pick and then the script on the feat should not run but you can not actually remove the feat (ie pick).

So the code you found is correctly removing the "Tags" that control what weapons the monk can use. The feat in this case is sort of outdated an no longer used for new classes. This is so that when proficiencies are changed you don't have a feat hanging around that is no longer valid.
Admittedly, I'm having trouble with this concept as well. I'm trying, I really am but when I see it work for other archetypes, I really begin to question what is going on. For example, the Barbarian Archetype, True Primitive, removes basically all of the Barbarians Weapon and Armor Proficiencies, tagging them to only use very specific weapons and armor. These disabled feats are done through the Remove Weapon / Armor dialog, in which the chosen things are deleted. Adding this archetype to a barbarian removes the selected feats (proficiencies) from the feat list all together... This is a big part of my confusing as to why it isn't working when selecting the Monk Weapons... As Aaron pointed out it is likely a bug, one which I will report shortly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShadowChemosh View Post
So change the tags to be what you need and simply do a hero.child[XXXXX].assign[Helper.FtDisable] (change XXXX to be the unique ID of the feat) so that the feat does not get printed.
Thank you, you've been an immense help and extremely patient in helping me. I shall do this until something better comes along.
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ShadowChemosh
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Old April 15th, 2014, 02:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anpumes View Post
Timing is the one thing that continually screws me up. I've read many times that something has to happen around a certain timing and I sort of understand this but when trying to figure out why, I completely get lost. I just don't understand exactly what is happening at what timings or at what times things are supposed to happen.
Yea timing messed with me allot in the beginning and honestly still does. Sometimes I figure out the right timing by simple trial and error. It just helps that I know when a script should work so when it doesn't I know to start looking at the timing.

Some general pointers about Timing:
-Adding Skills bonuses Pre-Level/4000.
-Bootstrap should be about First/490 to First/500 most of the time.
-Changing a race size or class tags it would be First/600.
-Adding situational text or adjusting livename or Text should be Render/1000 or Final/99999999.
-If you want to add attribute value (ie Strength Bonus) to something then Post-Attributes/10000.
-You want to increase/decrease an attribute would be Pre-Level/10000.
-You want to use the calculated value of Hit Dice or Class Levels you want Post-Level/10000 or greater.
-Final Phase should be used to set Text or Show a Final value to the gamer. At this phase doing any calculations or adding bonuses usually does nothing.
-First Phase is used to adjust some values before HL begins to calculate values. Beware though at this phase almost NOTHING has been calculated so you can't trust the value you get form anything.
-Very general rule if making changes or adding bonuses Pre-Level/10000 is safe timing to start at.

Unfortunately those are just "general" pointers as their is many exceptions. Once you get better with scripts and you know a script should be "working" and its not. That is when I start to look at timing and moving it around.

Hero Lab Resources:
Pathfinder - d20pfsrd and Pathfinder Pack Setup
3.5 D&D (d20) - Community Server Setup
5E D&D - Community Server Setup
Hero Lab Help - Hero Lab FAQ, Editor Tutorials and Videos, Editor & Scripting Resources.
Created by the community for the community
- Realm Works kickstarter backer (Alpha Wolf) and Beta tester.
- d20 HL package volunteer editor.
ShadowChemosh is offline   #5 Reply With Quote
Anpumes
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Posts: 57

Old April 15th, 2014, 03:32 PM
Thank you, I'm sure that'll help me quite a bit. The problem I have is that I'm not always sure my code is right either. I may not get errors when I put it all together but at the same time it might not be correct for what I'm trying to do. If I think it's right but doesn't seem to be working, I start messing with timing and sometimes I stumble upon something that works.
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Anpumes
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Posts: 57

Old April 16th, 2014, 07:19 PM
Submitted this as a bug per Aaron's recommendation and got this response back from him.
Quote:
I've fixed it so that the monk weapon proficiencies feat will now be hidden by fDisable tags. Since the feat does not actually do anything though, you still need to modify the WepProf tags on the class helper with an eval script though.
Thank you Aaron, this is very much appreciated.

I did some research and the Monk Weapon Proficiencies [fWepMnk] feat doesn't do anything aside from basically show some text and act as a placeholder. While Simple Weapon Proficiencies [fSimple] feat does the "perform hero.assign[Hero.ProfSimple], which I understand (I think) and the Martial Weapon Proficiencies [fWepMart] feat does the "result = hero.assign[Hero.ProfMart], which I do not understand. It is the first time I've seen code like this.

I'm actually very curious to learn why the [fWepMnk] doesn't do anything but the other two do and as a side note, what exactly is [fWepMart] doing...

Thanks for all of everyone's help with all of my questions.
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Mathias
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Old April 17th, 2014, 08:12 AM
Monk weapons, bard weapons, elven weapons - we plan to get rid of all of them - they're a legacy from the way we used to handle proficiencies. So, we haven't bothered fixing anything about them because they're planned to be removed entirely.
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Anpumes
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Old April 17th, 2014, 08:33 AM
Thank you Mathias. I'm trying very hard to understand the code I come across and why certain things work the way they do. With the intention of removing those weapon proficiency feats entirely, it makes sense that they do nothing, aside from cause me grief.

More digging and I see that "result =" is an archaic version of perform. This is also very helpful as now I'm less confused by why Simple Weapon Proficiencies and Martial Weapon Profciencies have different eval scripts.
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