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bennowak
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Join Date: Jun 2011
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Old September 3rd, 2022, 05:16 PM
For Rogue Unchained, what file/entity would I need to change to classify Unarmed Strike as a "Natural Attack" to qualify for "Improved Natural Attack" like Slam or Claws? This is in core, so cannot locate the base validation and everything I have tried by doing a new(copy) either thrown duplicated (wUnarmed) or is not recognized.
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Ualaa
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Old September 4th, 2022, 12:24 AM
Not sure what you're looking for in the editor.

From a rules standpoint, an unarmed strike is different from a natural attack.

Natural attacks follow the Primary/Secondary division.
Natural attacks don't get iterative attacks for higher BAB.
If a creature only has a single Natural Attack, it inflicts double STR bonus damage.

Unarmed Strikes are any combination of punches, kicks, knees, elbows, headbutts, etc.
Without Improved Unarmed Strike, the damage is non-lethal and making the attack provokes an opportunity attack from whatever you're attacking.
If you have higher BAB, you get extra attacks following the normal weapon progression.

------------------------------
That's not saying you cannot make the change if you want to.

It wouldn't be consistent with the rules of the game, but you're free to do whatever you'd like in your own game.
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bennowak
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Old September 5th, 2022, 03:53 PM
Not to debate the rules here.. just looking for HL Editor advice.

Character is Monk (Unchained) as mentioned. His Unarmed Strike specifically states "is treated as both a manufactured weapon and a natural weapon for the purpose of spells and effects that enhance or improve either manufactured weapons or natural weapons."

"Improved Natural Attack" has a Prerequisite: Natural weapon, base attack bonus +4.

So a rules hole, yes.. Improved Natural Attack was there prior to the Unchained Classes. But since the Unchained specifically calls this out as a Natural Weapon then it should qualify.

As a GM, I can simply allow this to be taken in HeroLab and ignore the warnings/error.. But, like Claw, Bite, Slam, etc... I want this to show up as a Natural Attack option for the Unchained Monk as the rules are stated.

Just cannot figure out what adjustment in the editor to make this show as a selection.
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Ualaa
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Old September 5th, 2022, 06:51 PM
Hero Lab is following the rules of the game.
Not sure how to use the editor well enough to allow an invalid choice.

If you go to the adjust tab, you can add Magic Weapon or Magic Fang, and either can select a Monk's Unarmed Strike, because that is a valid target.

A monk's unarmed strike is treated as both a manufactured weapon and a natural weapon for the purpose of spells and effects that enhance or improve either manufactured weapons or natural weapons.

Feats have effects, but are not effects.

You can search the Paizo boards (I did years ago, specifically for this...) and the official answer was that Improved Natural Attack would not improve an Unarmed Strike.

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I'd guess you'd have to make a copy of something, and then change the copy however you want to have it.
The original version is coded according to the rules of the game.

Maybe go into the editor and see how the Adjust Tab has adjustments for Magic Weapon (and a dropdown choice) and also for Magic Fang (again with a dropdown choice).

Make a copy of your feat, and modify it for both drop conditions?
Just a guess.

Last edited by Ualaa; September 5th, 2022 at 06:54 PM.
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ploturo
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Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 79

Old September 12th, 2022, 03:46 PM
The check in the Improved Natural Attack feat is coded to required certain combinations of component.? tags that an Unarmed Strike can't meet.

But you can use an adjustment to change the candidate string for the feat's selections.

(I tested this at Final:5000, but it just needs to be after the HasAbility.? tag would have been added.)
Code:
      doneif (field[pIsOn].value <> 1)

      doneif (hero.tagis[HasAbility.cMnkUnarm] = 0)


      foreach pick in Hero where "thingid.fImpNatAtt"

            eachpick.field[usrCandid1].text &= " | (component.BaseWep & wFtrGroup.Natural)"

      nexteach
(And FYI, there was official errata for the Bestiary which specifically disallowed Unarmed Strike as an option for that feat, so it's just a house rule for you to allow it and not a loophole anymore.)
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