Intellectual rights violation?

[hananack]

hello.
I wanted to use realm works with the golarion world setting.
I wanted to build part of the golarion world setting in my RW and use it only for my group and not sharing it in any way.

Is it considered a violation of intellectual rights? (I bought the book of course)

thank you

[EightBitz]

Originally Posted by hananack

hello.
I wanted to use realm works with the golarion world setting.
I wanted to build part of the golarion world setting in my RW and use it only for my group and not sharing it in any way.

Is it considered a violation of intellectual rights? (I bought the book of course)

thank you

I'm 80% sure that would fit in the category of "fair use".

[Pollution]

Originally Posted by EightBitz

I'm 80% sure that would fit in the category of "fair use".

I'm 100% sure that it's fair use.

Here's 3 examples of how this could work with RW:

1) You pick up a copy of Rise of the Runelords and put EVERY WORD in that book, into RW. You make the ties, copy and paste the maps to display to your players, and go, go, go, you use it in your game.

2) You do all of the above, AND you give access to it when the player edition comes out for when they discover info in the game (i.e. reveal info to the players).

3) You do 1 and 2, but you also give it away on the boards or TPB, or email your buddies in your local community a copy of your work.

1 = 100% fair use. Nothing wrong with it, its for private use and you're just showing them maps and things on a second display... Exactly like printing out handouts and maps on paper. RPG companies EXPECT you to do this. It's in the OGL, it's in most RPG copyright pages, and it's how games work. You're 100% clear.

2 = 99.999% sure this is also fair use. Your'e good here. It's no different from 1, except your players have access to it whenever they want, not just when you're showing it to them, EXCEPT that it's only the info you have revealed to them. You're fine.

3 = big no no. Copying everything from a book and passing it out is not going to make you friends at White Wolf, or Piazo, or WotC. The difference between 1&2 and 3 is best explained thusly: You loan a copy of the book in 1&2, you COPY the book and pass it out in 3. No good.

Yes you can do anything you want with realm works for you and your group's useage. you CANNOT copy your database and hand it out to your local GMs for free/money if it's not your own work.

IP laws and gaming are weird, but you essentially have to word for word copy RPG books to violate fair use.

[KefkaZ]

I'll second the 100%. What's the point in having the setting of Golarion if you're not using it to role play?

Just don't try and sell what you make (because that would be murky territory), and if you get a cease and desist letter, you probably want to cease and desist.

(Oh, and disclosure: I'm not a lawyer.)

[Pollution]

Originally Posted by KefkaZ

I'll second the 100%. What's the point in having the setting of Golarion if you're not using it to role play?

Just don't try and sell what you make (because that would be murky territory), and if you get a cease and desist letter, you probably want to cease and desist.

(Oh, and disclosure: I'm not a lawyer.)

no murky to it. down right copyright infringement.

Again, RPG companies EXPECT you to share the content with your players. Just not with anyone else.

And selling it would REALLY break the camel's back. In fact, IIRC, White Wolf once tried to sue LARP troupes because they would charge for their games. I THINK a court found that they had the right to charge if the troupe was for profit.

[mirtos]

NOT A LAWYER.

OP - fair use.

Pollution Example #1 - fair use
Pollution Example #2 - putting 100% of the book and then revealing it to players who have player edition - it might get murky... not sure.

Putting 100% of the book into RealmsWorks and then revealing it to players... I dont know, but that might be going above the line. I'm not sure. Because once the player edition comes out, then players would have access to things not during the game. If for example, you revealed everything (dont know why you would do that, but lets just say you did) then there really is very littel difference from photocopying the book and giving it to each one of your players. Sure, you arent making money off of it, but you are taking money out of the RPG makers hands since you are in essence making it so the players have access to the books without purchasing them.

Do RPGs expect GMs to share their content with the players or parts of the content with players? I would say the latter, not the former. Would they likely do anything? Doubtful, as we've all im sure photocopied books at times, or at least parts of them, but it certainly might be beyond fair use.

The problem is (and this has been even discussed in the HL forums when the topic has come up about a "group license" - i asked the question a while back, comparing it to a group purchasing the book and sharing it around the table) polution's #2 example, is not the same as "loaning a copy of the book" because at that time 2 people have access to the information at the same time.

[FrameProblem]

I don't normally wade into these sorts of discussions but thought I'd clarify a few things because I want to see this product succeed and don't want people's creativity stifled by legal boogeymen.

Fair Use is a doctrine for exempting certain uses of copyright material that would, given the remainder of copyright law, be violations but are specifically exempted (usually for free speech or social good reasons).

Personal use is separate from fair use. Personal use is what Pollution is referencing above.

A few things to remember:

1) Paizo must first send you a letter of Cease & Desist before they can file any sort of claim against you.
2) You have a variable but usually generous period of time to comply based on your jurisdiction (it's based on the location of the offence, not Washington State where Paizo is located)
3) If you comply, they cannot file suit.
4) If you do not comply and they choose to file suit they must establish the damages you caused them (usually in the form of lost revenue or the erosion of brand value) - the burden of proof is on them.

Usually this means they have to demonstrate that your offering reasonably reduces the chance that someone might purchase a Paizo product (ANY Paizo product).

[monsterfurby]

This is not even fair use. It quite simply does not even touch copyright limitations. Personal non-public copies are always acceptable.