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jbearwillis
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Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Independence, Mo
Posts: 797

Old October 16th, 2013, 02:34 PM
I had a chance to test out a new character creation program, which I will not name, but what it says it can do, is far off what it really can do. It lacks a lot of function that was promised as of right now for the price. It lacks so much compared to hero lab. Hero labs price is way worth paying, for what you are allowed to do and accomplish, and the sad thing about it is that the prices are very close. If you want more for your price, Hero Lab is the best choice. An example of what I'm talking about is how I was able to implement the starship design of High-Space into Hero labs savage World system. I really couldn't accomplish it in the other program to have it work the way it does in Hero Lab.

The only thing going for it as of right now, is it's ability to add things automatically for users that are not very good at programing things in, but it's only the numbers and none of the crunch and function that hero lab gives you.

So what I'm trying to say is great job Wolflair, you guys have one hell of a program and no matter what others might say, for the price I have payed for all the games I have, which is all of them. It was well worth the price to me.

I just want to send out a thanks to you all for all your hard work.
JBear

Last edited by jbearwillis; October 16th, 2013 at 02:40 PM.
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zarlor
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Old October 17th, 2013, 04:48 AM
I'm pretty sure I know which other program you're talking about, and certainly something like High Space just wouldn't be doable in that program. There is a lot to be said for the ability to get something like that into Hero Lab. That being said there is also a very steep learning curve to getting many things into a Hero Lab data file that require documentation that isn't always there. That other program is more intuitive for the majority of data entry work that a lot of people want to accomplish. It also does a few things that Hero Lab doesn't do and it has a bit nice character printout than hero Lab does.

Some of the missing things have been requested here, though, and often we'll see some of that eventually make its way into the program. Some of it we've been able to implement into data files ourselves and LWD in conjunction with PEG, Inc. have been excellent in reaching out to those of us in the community who have been willing to create data files for official settings, as can also be said for High Space. (One of the reasons I'm rather fanatically a Pinnacle fan boy is because they don't just allow fan-based content, unlike some other companies, they practically encourage it!)

We have had some issues on occasion with responsiveness, but I think that is more of a Savage Worlds issue just because I think the Savage Worlds side probably just brings in so much less money than the Pathfinder side does. Despite some of those delays, though, overall Lone Wolf has been pretty good about getting back to us. It also probably doesn't help that things here also tend to come in fits and spurts rather than a steady stream of things we may be working on.

I would also add that there is also a new program that just came out recently which advertised some really useful functionality for what it would do, but then it also failed miserably on delivering that. It has some promise, possibly on the form-fillable PDF front, but overall it's a heavily lacking product lagging FAR behind Hero Lab and that other program you mentioned.

So while I would still really love to see an easier or more understandable method where we might, for example, be able to use any form-fillable PDF as a character sheet, or at least a more intuitive or even graphical method for doing them, and while I would love to see even more of the suggestions I've made previously in the appropriate thread implemented, overall Hero Lab has still been my go-to character building program. Certainly there is plenty of room for improvement, but I'd also say that once you get over the cost of buy-in of the learning curve for doing some of the main data entry work kinds of things in it then it's still the best product out there for doing Savage Worlds characters.

Lenny Zimmermann
Metairie, LA, USA

Data files authored (please let me know if you see any issues with any of these if you have/use them):
Official (In the downloader)
50 Fathoms, Deadlands: Hell On Earth, Deadlands: Noir, East Texas University, Necessary Evil (requires Super Powers Companion), Pirates of the Spanish Main, Space 1889 (original file by Erich), Tour of Darkness, Weird War II, Weird Wars: Rome
Coming Eventually
Evernight (LWD has completed their review but I have some fixes to make first... although Pinnacle mentioned this might get an overhaul to SWADE so I may just wait for that first. If you just HAVE to have this now, though, just PM me)

Last edited by zarlor; October 17th, 2013 at 04:51 AM.
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jbearwillis
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Old October 17th, 2013, 09:41 AM
I don't think you do know which one I'm talking about, because the one that I bought, has a pretty bad print out and the character sheet that is nice doesn't print out everything you need. After you print it out it says you have to add the attributes your self and a few other things. It's doesn't even print out much if any of the description of the traits. I see further down you got the right program, The one I'm talking about just came out. It falls short of what it made itself sound like it could do. I feel it wasn't worth the money that the company charged for it. I just want to let the guys at Lone Wolf and CapeCrusader know that they have done a really good job on the program side. It might not be perfect, but it's ahead of the class and slowly getting better. That other programs form fillable isn't all that great at all, it really sucks. When I use it, I have to fill in some of the stuff.

Last edited by jbearwillis; October 17th, 2013 at 09:43 AM.
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zarlor
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Old October 17th, 2013, 11:03 AM
I gotcha and yeah, I very much agree that when all is said and done that new program just isn't even close to being ready for prime time, IMHO, and definitely doesn't deliver on its promises. Heck, it doesn't even let you put in Knowledge skills right, yet. Pretty shoddy, IMHO.

The first program I mentioned, though, has been a player in the market for a while and I was pretty town between it and Hero Lab for a while, but then decided Hero Lab was going to be worth the extra time I would need to invest in it to be able to get more out of it than I could with the other program.

Lenny Zimmermann
Metairie, LA, USA

Data files authored (please let me know if you see any issues with any of these if you have/use them):
Official (In the downloader)
50 Fathoms, Deadlands: Hell On Earth, Deadlands: Noir, East Texas University, Necessary Evil (requires Super Powers Companion), Pirates of the Spanish Main, Space 1889 (original file by Erich), Tour of Darkness, Weird War II, Weird Wars: Rome
Coming Eventually
Evernight (LWD has completed their review but I have some fixes to make first... although Pinnacle mentioned this might get an overhaul to SWADE so I may just wait for that first. If you just HAVE to have this now, though, just PM me)
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jbearwillis
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Posts: 797

Old October 17th, 2013, 11:15 AM
Yea I know what program your talking about and it is nice, but it doesn't have the tactical console or a few other things. It's nice as a player, but is lacking as a gm tool, which hero lab is both. Also that other program isn't any easier to input things into it then hero lab is. I have it to. lol, now I have all 3 and I would have to say hero lab by far is my choice of the 3.
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dartnet
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Posts: 591

Old December 31st, 2013, 09:31 PM
Lets just say there have been quite a few folks that have had to eat allot of crow on the other boards over this.

I think we have the better product and it keeps getting better.
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jbearwillis
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Old January 1st, 2014, 12:19 AM
Amen dartnet!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! LOL
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dartnet
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Old January 1st, 2014, 06:38 PM
Any chance of seeing more from you jbearwillis?

I say we as a community should go on a data file creating rampage and get more data files out than the other group can ever hope to match. I am shooting to do a file a month this year myself. Expect Mars real soon.

Last edited by dartnet; January 1st, 2014 at 06:42 PM.
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zarlor
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Old January 3rd, 2014, 01:08 PM
I just finished up 2013 at that kind of tempo! I'm not going to have much time to really work on files until after March, though. Then I can either start working on the few other third-party products I have which is really just Accursed, Zombacalypse, Shaintar, Slipstream, Sundered Skies, Dawn of Legends, Runepunk, and Realms of Cthulhu. I have more than I though, actually. I also have Modern Ops which might technically be considered an Official Release, but I think its along the lines of needing to be updated to SWD (easy enough for me to do) and out of print. So I don't know if it could be released as an "official" source or not. Let me know if anyone is interested in any of those in particular but no promises on when I could get any of them done.

Of course other than for Deadlands Noir I haven't set up the NPCs (other than monsters and such) or encounters for the other data files I've already done. My focus has tended to be on character creation and less on things like encounters but I'm not sure of anyone who really uses Hero Lab for encounters on the Savage Worlds side of things anyway. It plays well enough at the table that not using the program for it isn't a big deal at all, I don't think. I could go back to work on some of those, though.

And I do have a minor update to make on HoE, but that one is pretty much ready to go. I just have to post the update.

Lenny Zimmermann
Metairie, LA, USA

Data files authored (please let me know if you see any issues with any of these if you have/use them):
Official (In the downloader)
50 Fathoms, Deadlands: Hell On Earth, Deadlands: Noir, East Texas University, Necessary Evil (requires Super Powers Companion), Pirates of the Spanish Main, Space 1889 (original file by Erich), Tour of Darkness, Weird War II, Weird Wars: Rome
Coming Eventually
Evernight (LWD has completed their review but I have some fixes to make first... although Pinnacle mentioned this might get an overhaul to SWADE so I may just wait for that first. If you just HAVE to have this now, though, just PM me)
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KosherInfidel
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Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 10

Old January 5th, 2014, 12:21 PM
I don't know which one you are discussing. I only know of Wild Card Creator, which is a nice little program still in Beta, MetaCreator, which is very AccessDB but it works (I can add a custom race easily), and Savage Outfitter, which is basically abandoned at this point.

HL is good, but adding to it is an abomination.
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