Difficulty with Replaces Thing ID

[Fiordhraoi]

Hi all!

I'm new to modding, and I've gotten some basic stuff working. However, I'm having difficulty with the "Replaces Thing Id" field to 'modify' base items. I did a search through the forums, but I didn't see anything relevant.

I've created a copy of a class (Druid, in this case), choosing cHelpDrd as the Thing to copy. I give it the Class Name Druid, the Abbreviation Dru (as it won't allow me to choose Drd), and the Identifier cDruidAlt.

I've modified it to allow for the use of bows, as the campaign setting we want to use allows such. I then put cHelpDrd in the "Replaces Thing Id" box.

Saving everything and then reloading the game system, I go to create a new character. I see two entries for Druid, not one. Both show the modifications I made (allowing bows). If I select one of them, my character then acquires TWO class tabs, both titled Druid. They seem somewhat tied together - if I select a Nature Bond on either one of them, it doesn't show up on the second tab, but it won't allow me to choose a second nature bond, saying I have no picks yet.

So, TL;DR

1) Any idea why the class shows up twice when I put in the Replaces Thing Id?

2) This is more minor, but is there any way I could keep the Drd class abbreviation?

Thanks!

Edit: As a note, I tried editing default races by copying/using Replaces Thing, and that seems to work fine. Confusing!

[Fiordhraoi]

As a note - I've modified a couple of races, and used the Replaces Thing Id field with those, and I don't end up with a duplicate there. Confusing!

[Portilis]

Hi there, and welcome.

Firstly, if what you want to do is as simple as adding an additional allowed weapon, you could probably do that far more simply with an archetype. There are several reasons for this, but the main ones (in my mind at least) are that Replace will remove the replaced item from the system even when your replacement isn't available (such as if you restrict it with a personal source), and that other Things may not interact properly if they are looking for the normal druid class.

Secondly, if you want to stick with that method the listings that appear when you go to choose a class are populated from the "Class Level" entries, not the base class ones, so you would need to Replace the original druid Class Level entry with the one that has been created for the new version.


On your other question, keeping it as Drd, creating it as an archetype would fix that for you.


Oh, the other reason is that doing it as an archetype would also probably work out easier!

[Fiordhraoi]

Ahhh, good call. I forgot about archetypes, we generally don't use them in game. I will play around with that and see if I can get it working. Thanks!

[ShadowChemosh]

Originally Posted by Portilis

On your other question, keeping it as Drd, creating it as an archetype would fix that for you. Oh, the other reason is that doing it as an archetype would also probably work out easier!

I agree with Portilis use an Archetype. For races you can always use an ART (Alternate Racial Trait) instead of doing the Replace Thing ID to make adjustments to the class.

Another reason for why not using Replace Thing ID is good is if a fix in a script or something comes out for the Druid Class or Feat or Race then you won't see it if its been Replaced. Because you have replaced the original and you would have to spend time updating scripts or tags to match the new changes.

Another very advanced option instead of replace use *PRECLUDE to hide the original Class using a Source ID. Then have your new Druid class only display when the Source ID is shown. Then you have to get into assigning tags to the hero yourself to trick HL into treating your Druid Class like the original. This is just FYI info only and don't recommend people using this until they are very familiar with the HL and the Editor.

[Fiordhraoi]

So in general, I'm getting the impression that if you're modifying something complex, it's better to use archetypes/alternate traits, etc. Does this apply to things like Feats as well?

For example, let's say I decided that Dodge should give +1AC, or +2 AC after level 10. Since Dodge is potentially heavily referenced by other feats, will it cause problems if I made my "Dodge+" feat and used Replace Thing?

If it would cause problems, since there's no archetype/ART modifier for feats that I know of, is it better just to create a whole brand new feat and then use the entry to say it "counts as Dodge" for other feat prerequisites?

[Portilis]

Personally I'd do the Dodge one with a Mechanic, set up to only action when a specific source is set, that adds an additional +1 dodge bonus if the person has the Dodge feat. That way you avoid mucking around with the Dodge feat, and can easily turn it on and off.

[Fiordhraoi]

Cool, I will have to look into that.

Thanks for being patient and fielding questions! I'm still getting my head around the various structures and I'm just starting to delve into the actual scripting language, so it's good to have some "best practices" suggestions for various scenarios.

[ShadowChemosh]

Originally Posted by Portilis

Personally I'd do the Dodge one with a Mechanic, set up to only action when a specific source is set, that adds an additional +1 dodge bonus if the person has the Dodge feat. That way you avoid mucking around with the Dodge feat, and can easily turn it on and off.

Yep same here. I would also then use the macro #appenddesc[THING_ID,"TEXT"] to append additional information so that a person knows that the dodge feat would gain a bonus.

Some Example code. Note I have not actually tested this script but it should work. Plus I am guessing that Dodge uses abValue to hold the +1:
Pre-Levels/10000

~ Increase Dodge Feat value by 1
#value[fDodge] += 1
~ Append additional text onto the Dodge Feat
#appenddesc[fDodge,"{b}House Rule Change:{/b} Dodge now provides a +2 bonus instead of a +1."]

[Portilis]

Originally Posted by Fiordhraoi

Thanks for being patient and fielding questions! I'm still getting my head around the various structures and I'm just starting to delve into the actual scripting language, so it's good to have some "best practices" suggestions for various scenarios.

Happy to do so, Shadow & others have answered plenty of questions from me in the past, and I tend more towards the obscure to make their lives difficult!