RW Crashing on load

[Pollution]

So I got myself into a pickle, and I'm here to warn others.

If you duplicate a topic, and don't see the topic appear in the topic list on the left... DO NOT DUPLICATE AGAIN!

I've been entering a module, and got a fair way into it, and then hit this point.

I tried to copy a monster entry (for ease of entry, edit is easier than create).
Didn't see the topic show up.
Duplicated again, thinking, "Oh, well, it musta not worked....duh...."
Didn't see it AGAIN, so I said, "Oh, wait, maybe if I save...."

Sure enough, the topic appeared. Cool, okay, but oh, look, there's the first copy.

So, I clicked and tried to delete the first copy.

Crash.

Ugh.

Reload. Let's try this again.

Crash.

"uh oh..."

Reload

Crash.

Reboot. Reload.

Crash.

Well..... F*

[MNBlockHead]

Thanks for the heads up. Hope you filed the bug report. RW should prevent or rename a duplicate topic/article.

[Pollution]

UPDATE:

Filed a bug report, then on a whim, I tried restoring the DB under options to a point just before my stupidity.

It all seems fixed now.

So if you run into this, try to backup.

[Pollution]

UPDATE 2:

It seems I'm getting this behavior whenever I duplicate a topic.

Strangely, I've broken it 3 times now by duplicating the same topic.

I'm tempted to try it with a different topic and see if it breaks, but I'm on a deadline, so i'm not doing any more Duplicating.

Be warned.

[Vargr]

Let us know what you (or LWD) finds out.

[kbs666]

Is your system low on resources? I've copied topics many times with no noticeable lag and no crashes.

The other issue might be the size of your DB file. I've had some concerns ever since I found out the entire DB was in a single file.

[Pollution]

Originally Posted by kbs666

Is your system low on resources? I've copied topics many times with no noticeable lag and no crashes.

The other issue might be the size of your DB file. I've had some concerns ever since I found out the entire DB was in a single file.

I think it's related to the topic that I copied.

I THINK the issue is that I put in a table (for statblock), and that somehow has it busted. (the only thing in there is the table)

System is fine on resources. Like, REALLY fine.
DB Size might have something to do with it. As you can see in the sig below, I've got a BUNCH of stuff in RW.... But I think there's something hinky with my table, that's all I can come up with.

I duplicated a different topic (an item this time) and had zero issues.

Dunno. I've got several error reports sent in and a couple of bug reports.

The REAL problem here, is that I lost about 2 hours work, which consisted of 1/2 the module I'm working in.

le sigh.

[Avi]

Originally Posted by kbs666

The other issue might be the size of your DB file. I've had some concerns ever since I found out the entire DB was in a single file.

Coming from a Windows and DB world - I do not see any problem with the size of the DB...
The OS/DB system manages what it loads into memory and what it keep on virtual and so on. The file size is misleading, in most RDBMS, its just what the OS sees as a single file with a big "hands off sign" on it.

[rob]

A few thoughts on this subject...

More than likely, there is something special about the ONE topic that caused the crash when duplicating. Duplicating definitely works in general, as you've already determined. So proclaiming that everything to do with duplicating was broken was IMHO unnecessarily high on drama.

Realm Works is extremely robust when it comes to ensuring nobody loses their data. The issue centered on a single topic. There was no need to restore from a backup and clobber all your work. If you had simply avoided the problematic topic and proceeded onward, you would could have avoided losing those two hours of work. Once we found and fixed the issue, that one topic would again be accessible and you'd have everything back the way you wanted it.

Unless you saved a copy of your database that was crashing, it's going to be extremely difficult for us to fix the problem. You sent us the crash report, but the issue is tied to something special about that ONE topic. Without access to that specific topic within your database, we're probably not going to be able to figure out the problem. It will be like finding a needle in a haystack.

So the three take-aways from this for anyone reading should be:

1. Please accurately portray the nature of bugs and the scope of their impact. There's no reason to cause other users unnecessary panic when a bug is limited to a special set of circumstances (e.g. a single topic).

2. There's rarely going to be sufficient reason to restore from an old database. We go to great lengths to ensure Realm Works safeguards everyone's data and doesn't lose/corrupt anything. If something goes wrong within the program, start by avoiding the one "landmine" situation and report the issue. We will almost always be able to preserve your data when we fix the issue.

3. Please save your database when a crash or other serious bug arises and provide it to us with your bug report. There are a myriad combinations of things that users can do with Realm Works. We can't test them all or even think of them all, and there are some which result in problems. If we can't see what the magic combination is that causes a particular problem (by looking at your data), our ability to find and fix the problem will be significantly impaired.

One last point regarding the database...

Realm Works uses the Firebird database engine on the desktop. This database is an extremely powerful, widely used, and well-tested engine. It is designed to manage terabytes of data efficiently. Most users won't have even 100MB of data, which is less than 0.01% of what Firebird is designed to handle. That's like taking a McLaren F1 for a drive around a parking lot filled with speed bumps. Yes, it's overkill for most users, but it scales well for the few users with large databases and lets us ensure your data is always pristine.

So please don't worry about the fact that everything is stored in a single database file. That's what database engines like Firebird are built for. Other users here on the forums with knowledge in this arena will readily attest to this fact.

Thanks for listening.

[Pollution]

I never intended to be "High on Drama."

I apologize if it seemed like I was Nerd-Raging.

That was never my intent. I wanted to share the bug I discovered with the community, so they wouldn't fall into the same trap (creating a duplicate of a duplicate before saving the duplicate causing a circular link).