Need core races for NPCs

[thistledown]

I'm not seeing any of the core races in the race list for NPC's. We do need NPCs besides monsters...

[Joe]

Moved this to it's own thread.

[ShadowChemosh]

Originally Posted by thistledown

I'm not seeing any of the core races in the race list for NPC's. We do need NPCs besides monsters...

See THIS thread for details. But a NPC is not built like a PC and you do not start with "race" to build a NPC monster. Regardless if you are trying to build a human solider you don't start with Human you start with type Humanoid and go from their.

[Azgulor]

Originally Posted by ShadowChemosh

See THIS thread for details. But a NPC is not built like a PC and you do not start with "race" to build a NPC monster. Regardless if you are trying to build a human solider you don't start with Human you start with type Humanoid and go from their.

Just a suggestion, but either this thread or the one linked by ShadowChemosh above should be made into a STICKY.

Personally, I'm really liking HeroLab Online. And while I was initially VERY resistant to NPCs being built by different rules than PCs, I'm finding that with SF the differences are slight enough that unless a character becomes a recurring NPC, the differences probably aren't worth the fuss.

However, trying to figure out how to build the NPCs was much less intuitive and was taking longer than making PCs until I found these threads. That's not a knock at Lone Wolf since they're just adapting the NPC rules, but it was counter-intuitive to not select Race-->Human when HLO was constantly prompting me to select a race!

Now that I know to use Custom Race as my starting point when building anything other than a premade Alien/"Named Encounter" NPC, it goes much more quickly.

I do think having "stock race baseline" with base options autoselected would be more intuitive, but the current NPC build system works just fine. But it could be a bit clearer that Custom Race is a typical starting point.

[thistledown]

But if you're listing every other monster for people to just open up and use, the core races should be there too.

[ShadowChemosh]

Originally Posted by thistledown

But if you're listing every other monster for people to just open up and use, the core races should be there too.

If you know the page number in the Alien Archive to give LW this info please do. As no such info exists are you expecting LW to invent Paizo rules?

[ShadowChemosh]

To add please don't provide the page numbers in the Core rule book for the human race. That is for a PC and can not be used to create/craft a NPC.

NPCs and Monsters in Starfinder use 100% of their own rules. Unless you want a really lopsided combat a DM can not craft a human solider using PC rules and throw it at the PCs. The combat will go on forever and be badly balanced.

With the above being the case and Alien Archive having no rules for "human" how can LW provide those in the tool?

[thistledown]

I don't think we're on the same page. Right now, I do this:
Create new, select NPC as the type. Confirm add character.
Open it, go to character, go to race. I can pick a void hag, an urog, or any of the AA things, but I can't pick a human or a vesk. I can then modify that urog into the monster I want, but the vesk I'd have to start from scratch.

[ShadowChemosh]

Originally Posted by thistledown

I don't think we're on the same page. Right now, I do this:
Create new, select NPC as the type. Confirm add character.
Open it, go to character, go to race. I can pick a void hag, an urog, or any of the AA things, but I can't pick a human or a vesk. I can then modify that urog into the monster I want, but the vesk I'd have to start from scratch.

100% correct. Urog is a "pre-built" monster. A Void Hag is a 'pre-built' monster. Human or Vesk have no 'pre-built' monster stats. A pre-built monster stat (even in HLO) includes all the decisions that Paizo already made when building it (Ability scores, selection of master skills, if the monster was a combat or skill expert). Its not actually a blank "race" like Pathfinder has or would be built in HLC for Pathfinder where you start with race and select skills and ability scores.

From the other thread. Here is the statblock of the human gang members from the first AP Dead Suns:
-----------------------------------------------
Absalom Station Gang Member CR 1/2
XP 200
CE Medium humanoid (human)
Init +3; Perception +10
--------------------
Defense HP 13
--------------------
EAC 10; KAC 12
Fort +2; Ref +4; Will +0
--------------------
Offense
--------------------
Speed 30 ft.
Melee club +2 (1d6-3 B)
Ranged azimuth laser pistol +6 (1d4 F; critical burn 1d4)
--------------------
Statistics
--------------------
Str +2; Dex +3; Con +1; Int -1; Wis +0; Cha -1
Skills Bluff +5, Intimidate +9, Stealth +5
Gear flight suit stationwear, azimuth laser pistol with 1 battery (20 charges), club, credstick (worth 150 cr), credstick (worth 150 cr)

Hero Lab and the Hero Lab logo are Registered Trademarks of LWD Technology, Inc. Free download at http://www.wolflair.com
Pathfinder® and associated marks and logos are trademarks of Paizo Inc.®, and are used under license.
------------------------------------------------

Its stats are in line with the Paizo adventure and built using HLO. But no where did I start with "human" because no such monster exists.

If you are making a vesk adversary you follow the rules of the AA and start with Humanoid as type and Vesk as the subtype. Then fill in the rest of the details. But a Vesk NPC does NOT get the ability score modifiers or many other features of the Vesk PC race.

I am not sure how else to describe this.....

[jlong05]

Originally Posted by ShadowChemosh

100% correct. Urog is a "pre-built" monster. A Void Hag is a 'pre-built' monster. Human or Vesk have no 'pre-built' monster stats. A pre-built monster stat (even in HLO) includes all the decisions that Paizo already made when building it (Ability scores, selection of master skills, if the monster was a combat or skill expert). Its not actually a blank "race" like Pathfinder has or would be built in HLC for Pathfinder where you start with race and select skills and ability scores.

I think the OP had some incorrect selections as his example. I agree that non player race monsters should be the way they are, but the alternate player races, Barathu, Contemplative, Draelik, Dragonkin, Drow, Formian, Space Goblin, Gray, Haan, Ikeshti, Kalo, Maraquoi, Nuar, Ryphorian, Sarcesian, Shobhad, Skittermander, Urog, Verthani, Witchwyrd and Wrikreechee shoudl also follow the NPC rules being used for creating NPCs of Core system rules. Otherwise they do not follow the same logic. Either its ok for Core races to be in the NPC race list, or the AA races should not for custom NPCs that follow class builds.