Print/Export created content.

[mirtos]

Originally Posted by rob

@hollowwheel, etal: Sorry for my choice of wording. I was mostly reacting to the assertion that "it's easy because it's in a database" (paraphrased). Since nobody had even alluded to the complexities and comments were being made about how it should be easy, I let the emotions take over and (wrongly) declared that nobody had considered the complexities involved. I'm sure many hadn't but it was a gross generalization on my part. Apologies to all.

Please understand that my involvement here on the forums is time I'm not spending on a myriad other tasks that also need to get done. The most fundamental of those is coding, as I'm an integral part of implementing core functionality within Realm Works. Heck, I'm often the critical path. So I'm trying to be as helpful as I can here on the forums in as little time investment as possible. And every minute I spend here equals a further delay in getting Player Edition and all the other features everyone is clamoring for into place. That means I don't spend copious time reviewing and editing every word I write. If it gets to a point where I have to do that, I'll have no choice but to curtail my posting to a bare minimum, and that doesn't really help anyone either.

Please cut me a little slack and I'll endeavor to take a deep breath before posting so that I avoid knee-jerk, gross generalizations like occurred above. Is that reasonable?

Quite reasonable.

[Viking2054]

unique digital watermarks imbedded at time of purchase of third party content could possibly be used to solve the DRM/sharing problem. Exporting and printing should also imbed the digital watermark. That way, someone who shares purchased third party content can be found out by tying the code in the watermark back to the purchaser and they can have their license revoked (especially if a repeat offender).

With digital watermarking in mind, maybe exporting/printing should be restricted to the full GM version of the product and not be available for the player edition or web page view. Or possibly restricted to the account of the purchaser so only the person who purchased the content and is logged in can print/export.

[mirtos]

Viking, that only works if the exported content is only PDF format. (Watermarks).

[Viking2054]

Originally Posted by mirtos

Viking, that only works if the exported content is only PDF format. (Watermarks).

wouldn't that be the preferred format for sharing a mixture of text and graphic data across the internet? I've also seen watermarking or digital code embedding in e-books.

[mirtos]

I think it depends on what people want to do it. For sharing, absolutely, but if people want to do things like use this data in another format (I know there are writers that use RealmsWorks for organization, and they would obviously want to plug into other software).

Other web developers might want to build a different sort of website or sites for their campaigns (different from the Players View), and other people might simply want to plug it into word, or acrobat to make their own PDFs, or many other things. I think thats what EightBitz and I were alluding to in earlier posts (If Im incorrect EightBitz, I apologize for speaking on your behalf.

So while the PDf thing makes sense, and I believe thats what Paizo does, for other content types (which im interested in), then i imagine some type of control on whether people can or cannot export is a way i would think makes sense. You could make that control be handled on the server level and wouldnt sync with realms (meaning you'd have to be conntected to the internet to export content that either you dont own or you derived off of someone elses work from the marketplace). Any content you created from scratch could be exported regardless.

This is just a thought of how LWD could allow exporting of content and convince content providers that the content providers could have the ability to decide what sort of content is exportable or not.

[hollowheel]

Originally Posted by rob

@hollowwheel, etal: Sorry for my choice of wording. I was mostly reacting to the assertion that "it's easy because it's in a database" (paraphrased). Since nobody had even alluded to the complexities and comments were being made about how it should be easy, I let the emotions take over and (wrongly) declared that nobody had considered the complexities involved. I'm sure many hadn't but it was a gross generalization on my part. Apologies to all.

Please understand that my involvement here on the forums is time I'm not spending on a myriad other tasks that also need to get done. The most fundamental of those is coding, as I'm an integral part of implementing core functionality within Realm Works. Heck, I'm often the critical path. So I'm trying to be as helpful as I can here on the forums in as little time investment as possible. And every minute I spend here equals a further delay in getting Player Edition and all the other features everyone is clamoring for into place. That means I don't spend copious time reviewing and editing every word I write. If it gets to a point where I have to do that, I'll have no choice but to curtail my posting to a bare minimum, and that doesn't really help anyone either.

Please cut me a little slack and I'll endeavor to take a deep breath before posting so that I avoid knee-jerk, gross generalizations like occurred above. Is that reasonable?

Completely understandable and reasonable.

[Viking2054]

Originally Posted by mirtos

Other web developers might want to build a different sort of website or sites for their campaigns (different from the Players View), and other people might simply want to plug it into word, or acrobat to make their own PDFs, or many other things. I think thats what EightBitz and I were alluding to in earlier posts (If Im incorrect EightBitz, I apologize for speaking on your behalf.

First, in my opinion this only works for purchased material that LWD has either licensed or created themselves with the intent to sell. Things we create should be under our control and don't need a digital watermark unless you want to throw it up for sale on LWD's store for RW.

I don't disagree with you, but people with the player edition or using a web browser to view the content don't need to export. I can understand printing to paper or PDF for them though, and the PDF version should contain the digital watermark possibly with an extra digital tag to identify the player account or e-mail address of the web user printing the material to PDF. If exporting is limited to the full license (GM version) and only to the person that purchased/created the content then the only thing that needs any restrictions is purchased content.

Most people that write or try to write, myself included, don't need to worry about legal ramifications unless the work is not unique and can be considered derivative of some other parties Intellectual property. Trying to write a story in the Star Trek, Star Wars, Harry Potter settings would require permissions as far as I know and so would any other franchise. But most writers aren't going to share their works in progress outside a select few, until it is finished or near finished anyway.

I'm not averse to Rob and crew taking their time and thinking this through, but digital watermarks have been used in the past and could be used here, in my opinion. Maybe Rob and the gang will come up with something better, I don't know, but maybe not.

Now, for someone willing to sit down in front of their computer for hours on end in order to type all the info for some module/rule book into Realm Works I don't have a solution for you except for some kind of policing by LWD or this community.

[EightBitz]

Originally Posted by mirtos

Other web developers might want to build a different sort of website or sites for their campaigns (different from the Players View), and other people might simply want to plug it into word, or acrobat to make their own PDFs, or many other things. I think thats what EightBitz and I were alluding to in earlier posts (If Im incorrect EightBitz, I apologize for speaking on your behalf.

No, that's mostly correct. The one thing I would add is that I often prefer reading offline as well. Even if I buy someone else's game to run, I would most likely want to print it out, at least in parts, to study and make notes so I'm better prepared to run it.

The worst game I ever played was with a DM who had done no prep and no studying and was running a canned adventure. He was reading from the module, word for word. No imagination, no elaboration, no embellishment, no style. No fun.

I don't want to run games like that, and I don't want to be tied to my monitor for prep and study.

I understand the complications for Rob. I'm just speaking my mind.

[mirtos]

Originally Posted by Viking2054

First, in my opinion this only works for purchased material that LWD has either licensed or created themselves with the intent to sell. Things we create should be under our control and don't need a digital watermark unless you want to throw it up for sale on LWD's store for RW.

Again, my suggestion would allow all content creators (you count as one) to decide whether their content could be exported or not. And obviously you could export your own content freely.

But if i put my content on the marketplace, for make it available for sharing (which i think is the same thing?, just for free), its not the worst thing in the world for me to decide if my content can be printed with/without watermarks. Hell, maybe i can even include a watermark, (so each content provider can provide their own watermark).
[/quote]

Now, for someone willing to sit down in front of their computer for hours on end in order to type all the info for some module/rule book into Realm Works I don't have a solution for you except for some kind of policing by LWD or this community.

That would qualify as fair/personal use unless they then decided to export it as their own, in which case, thats plagarism. I dont think LWD would have to police that. In fact, export or no, that would be the same issue if a user did that without the owner of the IP's permission (again, if they left it for their own group, thats fair use.

Disclaimer: I'm not a lawyer, so an actual copyright lawyer might have different info.

[Viking2054]

Sharing a canned module someone typed into Realm Works falls mostly under fair use with your regular gaming group. However, if it goes wider then that and is made public to the masses then I think you are crossing into infringement of Intellectual Property. I have a feeling once the holders of said IP are made aware of such broad disbursement of their creation is made public, they would either ask for recompense or seek to have the material removed.

Again, this has nothing to do with something you created on your own and is your unique material.

Although watermarking of your own creation may be a feature you could turn on/off at your whim... I think the actual imbedding of the watermark code into the material should be handled by LWD's store servers. That way they have a permanent record of digital codes that can be looked up when ever an IP holder comes knocking and asking for the name of the individual that infringed on their IP.

Theft of IP hurts smaller industries like gaming more then it hurts larger industries, but it does hurt everyone. Unfortunately, in the digital age it can't really be stopped. However, that doesn't mean the person(s) that did the initial infringement shouldn't be confronted and forced to make recompense.

If I had a campaign world I created with possible plans for selling sometime down the road, I'd be very upset if it was thrown up on the net for everyone to look at. I of course have no problem sharing with my local gaming group, unless they start sharing beyond the members of the group and a few other friends. The same would go for a writing project (book, screenplay, or whatever)... I wouldn't want any of it distributed to the general public and would be rather upset if it happened.

I suppose this brings up another question/point. How many people should you be able to share purchased content with? I know a few people that run games at the local gaming store, and they will run the same module over and over again for different groups that want to play through the module. Admittedly most of this is for D&D and Pathfinder events (which isn't a problem), but some of it isn't. How many groups should a single account be able to share purchased modules/campaign setting with? Should I be able to have 7 groups of 4 to 6 players and run that uber module for a different group every single night until its finished? What if two GM's, unbeknownst to LWD decide to share an account and one logs in in the afternoon and runs the game 7 afternoons a week for different groups of 4 to 6 players while another GM logs in at night and does the same thing? How many times should you be able to recreate a purchased module/campaign in a given period of time?