Lone Wolf Development Forums  

Go Back   Lone Wolf Development Forums > Hero Lab Online Forums > Hero Lab Online Discussion

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Farling
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Greater London, UK
Posts: 2,557

Old August 18th, 2021, 10:55 AM
I've just had a discussion with the Foundry VTT team members, and they have informed me that Hero Lab Class is rite with Copyright issues so they won't allow modules which import files to be listed on their REPO site.

This presumably is because HLC allows users to add their own content.

Foundry VTT team members are allowing import from HLO because it does not have the same Copyright issues.

For this reason, it seems very unlikely that LWD will ever allow user-created content to be used on HLO - since it will break this trust they have with other online service providers who might want to interface with HLO but are wary about Copyright issues.

Farling

Author of the Realm Works Import tool, Realm Works Output tool and Realm Works to Foundry module

Donations gratefully received via Patreon, Ko-Fi or Paypal
Farling is offline   #1 Reply With Quote
charlieluce
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,285

Old August 18th, 2021, 11:44 AM
The technical issues with supporting user-created content in HLO already made it highly unlikely without any influence from copyright problems.

Currently Running: Pathfinder Second Edition
Currently Playing: D&D 5e

Former Games: Pathfinder First Edition, D&D 4e, Mutants & Masterminds (2E & 3E), Savage Worlds
charlieluce is offline   #2 Reply With Quote
dacoobob
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Posts: 299

Old August 18th, 2021, 02:23 PM
heck, i'd be overjoyed if they even supported the official content they'd already promised... starships for example, or adventure path GM content.
dacoobob is offline   #3 Reply With Quote
wildj79
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 4

Old August 18th, 2021, 03:24 PM
That's a pretty big leap in logic. One that I'm inclined to disagree with.

HLC por files are essentially a proprietary file format. They might just be zipped xml files, but it's still a file format specific to Hero Lab Classic. My guess (and I've been around the foundry community long enough for this to be a pretty educated guess) is that foundry is taking issue with this aspect, and not so much rejecting a module that would be used to import data (there are already several modules in the official listing that do exactly this, import data from json or xml files or parse stat blocks to create items and actors in foundry). The key difference with HLO is that it has a public API that is specifically designed for this purpose.

So, thinking that HLO is never gonna support custom content just because third party vendors might take issue with it is unlikely and kind of a stretch.
wildj79 is offline   #4 Reply With Quote
mototom
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 205

Old August 18th, 2021, 04:46 PM
Isn't the PDF to Foundry Importer for PF2 listed on their site? It extracts all the content from a PDF and puts it in Foundry. I'm not sure how that's any different, as there's no way to verify the license to that copyrighted Paizo PDF.
mototom is offline   #5 Reply With Quote
Farling
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Greater London, UK
Posts: 2,557

Old August 18th, 2021, 05:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mototom View Post
Isn't the PDF to Foundry Importer for PF2 listed on their site? It extracts all the content from a PDF and puts it in Foundry. I'm not sure how that's any different, as there's no way to verify the license to that copyrighted Paizo PDF.
I haven't got very far in talks with them yet, but I thought that the PDF reader module only worked on legal(?) PDF formats. (I have no idea if such a thing exists.)

Farling

Author of the Realm Works Import tool, Realm Works Output tool and Realm Works to Foundry module

Donations gratefully received via Patreon, Ko-Fi or Paypal
Farling is offline   #6 Reply With Quote
Farling
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Greater London, UK
Posts: 2,557

Old August 18th, 2021, 05:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wildj79 View Post
That's a pretty big leap in logic. One that I'm inclined to disagree with.

HLC por files are essentially a proprietary file format. They might just be zipped xml files, but it's still a file format specific to Hero Lab Classic. My guess (and I've been around the foundry community long enough for this to be a pretty educated guess) is that foundry is taking issue with this aspect, and not so much rejecting a module that would be used to import data (there are already several modules in the official listing that do exactly this, import data from json or xml files or parse stat blocks to create items and actors in foundry). The key difference with HLO is that it has a public API that is specifically designed for this purpose.

So, thinking that HLO is never gonna support custom content just because third party vendors might take issue with it is unlikely and kind of a stretch.
Foundry team specifically don't want to allow import from Hero Lab Classic because of the supposed amount of piracy that is rife with the data sets. It definitely is NOT because the .por is a zip file with proprietary XML formats in it.

Farling

Author of the Realm Works Import tool, Realm Works Output tool and Realm Works to Foundry module

Donations gratefully received via Patreon, Ko-Fi or Paypal
Farling is offline   #7 Reply With Quote
mototom
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 205

Old August 18th, 2021, 06:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Farling View Post
I haven't got very far in talks with them yet, but I thought that the PDF reader module only worked on legal(?) PDF formats. (I have no idea if such a thing exists.)
It does not. There are some mechanisms to digitally sign PDFs, but those aren't used on Paizo PDFs. They watermark them so you could tell whose PDF it is if it ends up on a file sharing site, but there's no way for the PDF importer to tell that the PDF I'm using is my purchased copy and not someone else's.
mototom is offline   #8 Reply With Quote
thaX
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 293

Old August 18th, 2021, 08:18 PM
To say this is the reason for the table top to refuse to import the POR files is not looking at the whole picture of what the file is and the information contained within.

To be perfectly honest, one could use content from anywhere and fill out a character sheet, and still use content that is contained within the IP without ever importing anything at all.

Whatever the reason for any company to not facilitate the importing of files to their platform, the fear of violating copyright law (by the user, not the platform that interpenetrated it) is far from being the main culprit for the exclusion. One could surmise that the file itself is using propitiatory means to gather the character info and use it in the HLC product, though Lonewolf has given their graces to allow table top platforms to relay that info for character use on the sites.

Whomever told you that this was the reasoning for not allowing this is not telling you the whole story. There likely is another reason altogether for the exclusion, one that has nothing to do with copyright.

Possibly, it could be the changable rules through the interface within HLC that would allow a person to institute house rules (like The World is Square add on). It also could be an issue with storage of info on the web site for those files (on the REPO site, whatever that is)

Right now, I can not directly import character info onto Roll20 for PF2 from HLO because API support is a GM only use and you have to pay for it. (and also make a game in which your the GM) For the casual player, a hard no go.
thaX is offline   #9 Reply With Quote
Farling
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Greater London, UK
Posts: 2,557

Old August 19th, 2021, 02:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thaX View Post
Whatever the reason for any company to not facilitate the importing of files to their platform, the fear of violating copyright law (by the user, not the platform that interpenetrated it) is far from being the main culprit for the exclusion. One could surmise that the file itself is using propitiatory means to gather the character info and use it in the HLC product, though Lonewolf has given their graces to allow table top platforms to relay that info for character use on the sites.
I have been speaking to Kandashi and Anathema on the Foundry Discord.

They have both specifically mentioned that HLC is well known for allowing copyright material to be used without purchasing it - Anathema even said that it is very easy to find these files with a simple google search (I couldn't find any). Thus they don't want to list any modules which interact directly with HLC files.

Anathema who has the role of "Project Coordinator - Foundry Virtual Tabletop" said "If I recall at the time of investigation it was possible to wholesale acquire databases of copyright infringing material for a variety of publisher content for HL Classic with very simple Google searches"

Farling

Author of the Realm Works Import tool, Realm Works Output tool and Realm Works to Foundry module

Donations gratefully received via Patreon, Ko-Fi or Paypal

Last edited by Farling; August 19th, 2021 at 03:05 AM.
Farling is offline   #10 Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 03:33 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® - Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
wolflair.com copyright ©1998-2016 Lone Wolf Development, Inc. View our Privacy Policy here.