Amateur needs help with custom spell list and breaking a game rule.

[Redcap's Corner]

I'm not much of a programmer, but I'm good with syntax and I'm pretty good at reverse engineering things. To that end, I've added a fair amount of custom material to Hero Lab and have had good success with it, but I'm working on an alternate class and I'm stuck on two issues.

1) The class has its own custom spell list. It's an arcane prepared spellbook caster (a'la wizard). It has a very narrow spell list, and thus many of its spells aren't from the Core Rulebook, which means I technically can't "edit" them to add them to this class's spell list (as far as I can tell) without effectively reprogramming them. So, to create the basis of its spell list I've been adding spells to its otherwise empty list using an Eval Script on the class helper (at post-levels, priority 5000, index 2). I've been using the following code (though obviously with more than just these five spells):

  perform assign[ClsAllowSp.spDeteMag0]
  perform assign[ClsAllowSp.spHaunFey0]
  perform assign[ClsAllowSp.spKnowDir0]
  perform assign[ClsAllowSp.spReadMag0]
  perform assign[ClsAllowSp.spSift0]

The problem I'm having is that, for some reason, no spell with a tag that comes alphabetically after Paragon Surge is showing up when I compile and test the class in Hero Lab. I've added over 100 spells to its spell list, and at every single spell level, the spell list truncates after that point alphabetically. What am I missing?

2) This class has an ability that allows natural armour bonuses affecting it to always stack with one another. Does anyone know how I would go about breaking this fundamental rule of the game with a class ability? I can't think of any similar abilities to use as a basis from which to reverse engineer this.

Thanks!

[Aaron]

1) There is a limit to how many characters the candidate expression field for spells can hold, and when it is being generated from a long list of individual spell allowed tags, you're going to hit that limit. If you can build the list from a more "group criteria" standpoint you'll probably be fine. For example, if the class uses "Wizard spells of the Enchantment and Illusion schools", or "Druid spells up to spell level 4" would both work.

For a unique and eclectic spell list beyond a certain point, the copy and replace method's going to have to be the route traveled, inconvienant as it is, sorry!

2) Almost all bonuses to natural armor that I can think of are untyped (and should be stacking already), with the exception of amulets of natural armor and the barkskin spell (both of which are enhancement bonuses and normally don't stack).

I'm having trouble thinking of a clean way to do this apart from copy-replacing relevant things and modifying their scripts to check for the class or some tag it applies and apply typed or untyped bonuses appropraitely.

[AndrewD2]

There is a limit to the number of spells you can add, the candidate expression is only so big, you've probably make it too big for Hero Lab to handle.

[Aaron]

Waoh-PAH!

[Redcap's Corner]

Originally Posted by Aaron

2) Almost all bonuses to natural armor that I can think of are untyped (and should be stacking already), with the exception of amulets of natural armor and the barkskin spell (both of which are enhancement bonuses and normally don't stack).

I'm having trouble thinking of a clean way to do this apart from copy-replacing relevant things and modifying their scripts to check for the class or some tag it applies and apply typed or untyped bonuses appropraitely.

Weird. Why are they being treated as untyped? Natural armour bonuses definitely aren't normally supposed to stack with one another (though I understand that many things that add natural armour bonuses do so in the form of "enhancement bonuses to natural armour" or "improvements to natural armour").

[Redcap's Corner]

Originally Posted by Aaron

1) There is a limit to how many characters the candidate expression field for spells can hold, and when it is being generated from a long list of individual spell allowed tags, you're going to hit that limit. If you can build the list from a more "group criteria" standpoint you'll probably be fine. For example, if the class uses "Wizard spells of the Enchantment and Illusion schools", or "Druid spells up to spell level 4" would both work.

For a unique and eclectic spell list beyond a certain point, the copy and replace method's going to have to be the route traveled, inconvienant as it is, sorry!

Unfortunately the spell list is "most spells in the game with a range of personal and a few effectively personal range spells that don't technically have that range, unless those spells are overtly divine in nature or seem to only be relevant to alchemists." Something tells me that would be too tricky to try to summarize with a formula.

With that copy and replace method, am I going to need to update each of my replacements every single time the spell gets added to another class's spell list through official channels? For instance, let's say one of the new occult adventures playtest classes has a spell in common with my class, and I do my copy and replace for that spell to add my class to it. When you guys issue an update that includes occult adventures, is Hero Lab going to refuse to add that spell to the appropriate OA class list unless I manually update my replacement of the spell? Or is my class going to see itself on the replacement version and pull from that, with the OA class seeing itself on the officially issued version of the spell and pull from that? I can clarify if that doesn't make sense.

[Aaron]

Originally Posted by Redcap's Corner

Weird. Why are they being treated as untyped? Natural armour bonuses definitely aren't normally supposed to stack with one another (though I understand that many things that add natural armour bonuses do so in the form of "enhancement bonuses to natural armour" or "improvements to natural armour").

I'm not aware of any rules saying untyped natural armor bonuses don't stack with each other, could you give me a citation where you saw that?

[Aaron]

Originally Posted by Redcap's Corner

Unfortunately the spell list is "most spells in the game with a range of personal and a few effectively personal range spells that don't technically have that range, unless those spells are overtly divine in nature or seem to only be relevant to alchemists." Something tells me that would be too tricky to try to summarize with a formula.

With that copy and replace method, am I going to need to update each of my replacements every single time the spell gets added to another class's spell list through official channels? For instance, let's say one of the new occult adventures playtest classes has a spell in common with my class, and I do my copy and replace for that spell to add my class to it. When you guys issue an update that includes occult adventures, is Hero Lab going to refuse to add that spell to the appropriate OA class list unless I manually update my replacement of the spell? Or is my class going to see itself on the replacement version and pull from that, with the OA class seeing itself on the officially issued version of the spell and pull from that? I can clarify if that doesn't make sense.

That is, unfortunately, what that means. If we make any changes to update the base spells for whatever reason, those changes will not be inherited by your replacements, necessitating manual changes on your end.

[Aaron]

Though now that I think about it, just because you're copying the base spells doesn't mean you have to replace the existing ones. You could just remove all the sClass tags from the copy except the one for your new class, which would mean the old ones would still be updated by us as necessary. The drawback being when creating spell based magic items (like potions and wands and scrolls), you'll see the duplicated spell more than once. That might be an acceptable compromise.

[shatterjack]

Originally Posted by Aaron

I'm not aware of any rules saying untyped natural armor bonuses don't stack with each other, could you give me a citation where you saw that?

"Natural Armor" is itself a bonus type, not something that receives a bonus like Armor Class. By RAW, there's no such thing as an "untyped" bonus to natural armor.