I'm sorry but,

[mirtos]

I actually rewrote my post a couple of times. I should have let version 2 stay. i know you werent, but some people seemed to be. Its one of the flaws of the internet, flaming is too easy. Im not stating that you did it, but that it was done. Im not trying to single ANYONE out.

Flaming generally serves little purpose and makes a possible useful debate devolve into defensiveness.

I do agree that the software is going to be complicated, and I also agree that RW has done an amazing job at keeping it relatively intuitive.

I also believe that the real problem with this thread is that the OP didn't cite any real specific complaints. Its the difference between criticism, and constructive criticism.

Still, I live by the adage, "the customer is always right".

But where you and I fundamentally disagree, is that a poster should ever expect "heat". Its something that has become commonplace in the internet, but is not a good quality of it. Its a fundamentally bad quality, in my opinion. It causes discourse and discussion to be destroyed by as you put it, "flames". As you mentioned, a lot of it has to do with the medium. Text isnt good for displaying emotion, and this type of forum makes it easy to disassociate a poster from a person. I've been using the internet since the early 90s (prior to web browsers), and its one of the worst aspects of it.

My only suggestion before replying to a post, and im guilty of it too, is to take a moment, and be willing to edit or delete comments if they seem too snarky. Again, my personal opinion, and not directed at you directly Nikmal. (we're probably getting horribly offtopic).

[timjthomas]

RW is an interesting product. It essentially tries to be two products at once: a tool to help organize and develop a campaign for the GM and a tool to disseminate information to players.

I believe it does the first fairly well. There are some rough edges and there is a fairly significant learning curve, but the bits and pieces are there. I view RW as a toolbox with lots and lots of tools. However, it isn't something that you can simply jump into and easily master.

In it's second use, I believe RW is at its weakest. The tool is not very polished visually -- it doesn't look like a campaign guide book (as the original poster implies). It looks like a Windows database tool.

Just my opinion -- for what it may be worth. I am an Alpha Wolf backer and may use the tool to develop a campaign, but have no plans to use it to reveal information to players.

[mirtos]

That may change with the player access version, or the player web version, but I do have to agree with timjthomas on that. Right now, its a GREAT database tool. Its very good for campaign management. I'm not sure if its a great player tool, yet.

Its hard to say if it will change until we see the player only version, and after that (which is where my hope is lying) the web-site, if RealmsWorks will be able to live up to its promise of taking over when it comes to distributing campaign info to players.

[weogarth]

Various thoughts came to mind while reading the OP and the thread.

First, as pointed out by others, to the OP: It's hard to help, if that's what you want, without some concrete examples. I THINK that what you're wanting is to have the ability to construct and save your own tables and then have it create new topics based on the result. I suppose it's possible but honestly, there are so many permutations, it sort of boggles the mind. There's a feature request board here, you could put a detailed request/proposal over there and the rest of the user base can weigh in on it. That way, LWD can look at it with all the other requests and create a development roadmap.

Second, random generators. Everyone GMs differently and everyone creates differently, you really can't argue that fact. Some people never use generators, some use them frequently. I'm sort of in the middle, as I suspect many of us are. I often use them for names of people and places as well as defeating writer's block. Like the OP seems to do, I have used a full town-creating generator in the past. It gave me names, professions and other things. However, I chose not to completely flesh out my towns with that information because it isn't how I game. I have kept much of that information still available to me, however, as I use it when I need to add a bit more depth to the community in question. The OP, however, seems to use that level of detail in his game, which I can respect.

Perhaps rather than incorporating a random generator, a compromise which would be helpful to more people would be to create a bulk importer. This has been asked about before in the early access and backer discussions but I think that was more on a realm level. If there were a couple specific importers (places, people) along with a global 'rescan for links' option, that might help the OP by allowing him to take output from an RG, format and input en masse.

Lastly, Realm Works is a very powerful product. It is designed to be very broad, configurable and useful to many people doing different things. I does not, in fact CAN not, be everything to everybody 'as is', at least not until we get into neural interfaces which would be both cool and terrifying. If you're a gamer on social media, you've probably seen that meme with Boromir with various permutations of 'One does not simply....'. Well, here's another version: 'One does not simply open Realm Works and have it instantly do everything you want.'

Rob is working on a Best Practices guide. We all have our own experiences and advice. I've read through the forums, and as a result I've made various adjustments to my setup based on others' advice. Those adjustments aren't necessarily exactly 'as stated' but 'as applies to me'. Some other adjustments are tangential. For example, after I'd adjusted some tags I realized I could adjust 'Character Roles' to be more like I use them, which is a combination from Gary Gygax' Insidae and some other sources.

The OP needs to look at this again, read the documentation and forums, and simply play with it. There's something in here for everyone. Is it enough to make the OP happy? I hope so, but nothing in life is guaranteed.

[taxboy]

Originally Posted by MaxSupernova

I really think you need to calm down a bit and post some more concrete examples of what you are talking about with the hierarchy.

One of the strengths of RealmWorks is that it has a half dozen ways to do anything. If you are complaining that RW won't let you configure your hierarchy the way you want, you just haven't read the instructions, or used the help, or watched the very helpful tutorial videos.

Organization and campaign structure in RealmWorks is *so* personalizable that it's often difficult to know where to start.

Seriously, give it a bit of time. Something this huge can't be grasped in one "click around and play with it a bit" session.

+1

I had about three attempts before I settled on MY way and I still tweaking it as i learn what others are doing.

Original poster in this thread seems to be throwing a paddy....

[Mystic Lemur]

Originally Posted by mirtos

Still, I live by the adage, "the customer is always right".

I don't know who you are or where you live, but know that I hate you*. I hate you with the kind of hate that is normally reserved for pedophiles and people who torture animals*. I work in a retail pharmacy, and I can tell you with some authority that the customer is often wrong, and occasionally dangerously so. The customer is also hardheaded and stubborn and would rather use the product wrong that to have someone tell them the right way to use it. And then when the product doesn't work exactly like they think it should (regardless of what it's actually meant to do) it's somehow your fault for not telling them otherwise. The same customer, remember, who gets mad when you try to "waste their time" telling them about the product and how it should and shouldn't be used.

That is what I see in this thread. A customer who bought a product expecting it to do things it wasn't designed to, and refusing to use the documentation (which is part of the product he paid for) and the advice/suggestion of forum users (which he got for free) to learn what it actually can do. I'm sure if random generators are that important to him, he can find a way to incorporate them into RW, but not without first reading the documentation and learning how to insert objects.



*I don't have anything against you personally, but that mentality has made it terribly difficult to interact with some customers. Even if they're using a product in a way that could kill them, they assume they're right and I'm just being "rude" by telling them otherwise.

[weogarth]

Agree x 10 I was just trying to be nice about it in my post and offer suggestions as well.

Originally Posted by Mystic Lemur

I don't know who you are or where you live, but know that I hate you*. I hate you with the kind of hate that is normally reserved for pedophiles and people who torture animals*. I work in a retail pharmacy, and I can tell you with some authority that the customer is often wrong, and occasionally dangerously so. The customer is also hardheaded and stubborn and would rather use the product wrong that to have someone tell them the right way to use it. And then when the product doesn't work exactly like they think it should (regardless of what it's actually meant to do) it's somehow your fault for not telling them otherwise. The same customer, remember, who gets mad when you try to "waste their time" telling them about the product and how it should and shouldn't be used.

That is what I see in this thread. A customer who bought a product expecting it to do things it wasn't designed to, and refusing to use the documentation (which is part of the product he paid for) and the advice/suggestion of forum users (which he got for free) to learn what it actually can do. I'm sure if random generators are that important to him, he can find a way to incorporate them into RW, but not without first reading the documentation and learning how to insert objects.

[EightBitz]

They need to add an option for allowing us more free time from other obligations to devote to building worlds and campaigns.

[MaxSupernova]

Originally Posted by EightBitz

They need to add an option for allowing us more free time from other obligations to devote to building worlds and campaigns.

I'd be on that kickstarter like white on rice.

[mirtos]

Originally Posted by EightBitz

They need to add an option for allowing us more free time from other obligations to devote to building worlds and campaigns.

+10000 on that one. And as MaxSupernova said, that kickstarter would take my money.