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djc664
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Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 125

Old April 28th, 2022, 08:08 AM
I'm not sure if this is a bug, but I'm treating it as a "I'm probably missing something or doing something wrong" until I can rule that out.

Long time Classic owner, just activated Online to play Pathfinder 1e with a new group of people. The license transfer was fairly smooth, especially considering the backend challenges, so kudos on that!

We've always struggled with normalizing the Source list; in classic I've had to constantly monitor the checklists of stuff on all of my player portfolios to ensure the correct list of reosurces were used and things I had purchased but my players had not didn't get caught up and cause errors that freaked them out (I'm a Solution Architect, so I'm super comfortable... some of my players are... um... not. lol )

Here are the experiences I would prefer as user stories, and if someone could help me clarify where the differences are in practice it would greatly help me adjust appropriately. Hopefully it clearly explains what I'm intending to achieve and how I'm going about it, to easily identify what I may be missing / doing wrong / what's actually broken so I can just get to the next steps.

-------

As a GM, I'd like to be able to set the campaign standard of sources from a list that identifies the sources I've purchased but lets me check anything off.

Current Experience: The GM Campign Character Options shows all sources and everything is selectable, but it does not show which options ones are owned / shared via my Patron Slot.

As a GM, I'd like to align any PC to the default campaign source list automatically, or at least a single command rather than having to audit the list manually. Bonus points if I could simply lock the source list for all PCs in the campaign and never have to worry about anyone changing anything randomly.

Current Experirence: I can take control of a PC so that it shows under GM PC. Within the 3-dot menu, I select "use campaign options", which would assign the defaullt campaign source list.

New characters are beig made and they show "Options Mismatch". I moved them to GM PC and selected "use campaign options" being careful to only have owned and shared selections. The error message disappears for a second after clicking, but then reappears. I cannot find a report that tells me what is causing the mismatch, and I am loathe to begin ignoring warnings as a general rule unless I truly have no other choice.

As a GM, I'd like to be able to go to Character Options and see which sources are owned by either the GM(s), a Patron Slot sharing status, and the player(s) which also own the source.

Current Experience: None of this information is shown within the UI, though the packages you do not own are available in the Character Options selection screen for a character, but not the campaignd defaults.


As a GM, if I must live with character option lists being modifiable by players, I would like to get an evaluation list of what are the campaign mismatches so that I might be able to troubleshoot.

Current Experience: The message is not clickable; it only opens the character sheet as any other thing you click there. No option exists to see the evaluation results which lead to the message "options mismatch" being shown.
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mototom
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Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 327

Old April 28th, 2022, 10:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by djc664 View Post
As a GM, I'd like to be able to set the campaign standard of sources from a list that identifies the sources I've purchased but lets me check anything off.

Current Experience: The GM Campign Character Options shows all sources and everything is selectable, but it does not show which options ones are owned / shared via my Patron Slot.
I'm not LW but can try to answer the "am I missing something/doing something wrong" part.

I'm not sure I understand this one. Are you wanting to check off sources you don't own, and lock the players to these? Currently, there's no distinction between your campaign options and the patron sharing slot—you set the campaign to use a sharing slot, and select which sources are shared.

There is no "campaign source on, sharing off" option to make a source GM only, nor is there a "not owned/shared, but on as a campaign source if they own it."

Quote:
Current Experirence: I can take control of a PC so that it shows under GM PC. Within the 3-dot menu, I select "use campaign options", which would assign the defaullt campaign source list.

New characters are beig made and they show "Options Mismatch". I moved them to GM PC and selected "use campaign options" being careful to only have owned and shared selections. The error message disappears for a second after clicking, but then reappears.
The rest of your desired features seem related to options mismatch. The options mismatch alert can been broken for awhile. It seems to be continuously displayed for some characters, and no amount of moving ownership or applying campaign options will remove it.

I can see a view that shows what the mismatches are being valuable. It would help to be able to see what sources people are using. The shared options aren't editable by the players, though, so they can only change the sources, AFAIK.
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djc664
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Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 125

Old May 17th, 2022, 03:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mototom View Post
I'm not LW but can try to answer the "am I missing something/doing something wrong" part.

I'm not sure I understand this one. Are you wanting to check off sources you don't own, and lock the players to these? Currently, there's no distinction between your campaign options and the patron sharing slot—you set the campaign to use a sharing slot, and select which sources are shared.

There is no "campaign source on, sharing off" option to make a source GM only, nor is there a "not owned/shared, but on as a campaign source if they own it."
In the Campaign, under (left side menu) Settings--> Campaign Character Options --> Edit Options, you are shown a pop-up of Character Options. This lists all sources, which are used as the default campaign options. This UI does not indicate which of these sources I own (which would be shared under the Patron slot). it's just all the things and I have to remember which I have out of the hundreds of sources, and that ends up in mistakes, double work, and aggravation all around.

So part of this is that I would like it to have it easier to see which ones I own when I'm setting up the campaign. It would also be nice to have the "requiring purchase" links to the store for that upsell. It would be even better if it evaluated the players joined to the campign and listed who owned what on the list as well. That would help make purchase decisions easier to coordinate.

The concept of still being able to check off stuff I don't own is for when the players want to use a source that they purchased but the GM did not - it's easy enough to make it a default, since it's unlikely that I will care to use the same one or two PC-centric options for my NPCs or Monsters.

Also, I'm just trying to avoid introducing an arbitrary constraint by allowing anything to be checked regardless of ownership. That is the experience today, anyway, and there's probably more than one logistical fringe case where constraining the list to not be able to check anything would just make someone's life hard for no good value.

Hopefully that helps clarify what I'm asking here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mototom View Post
The rest of your desired features seem related to options mismatch. The options mismatch alert can been broken for awhile. It seems to be continuously displayed for some characters, and no amount of moving ownership or applying campaign options will remove it.

I can see a view that shows what the mismatches are being valuable. It would help to be able to see what sources people are using. The shared options aren't editable by the players, though, so they can only change the sources, AFAIK.
It has not cleared itself up, but I ended up taking control of the PC, forcing it to use defaults, then assigning it back to the player. The mismatch error remains, but inspecting the settings appear to be correct. :/

I don't like ignoring errors as a general rule, but it looks like that's what I'm going to have to do.

So the mismatch evaluation message is just broken? Is that the take away here?
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mototom
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Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 327

Old May 17th, 2022, 07:49 PM
Hopefully Lone Wolf can help with some of your other questions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by djc664 View Post
So the mismatch evaluation message is just broken? Is that the take away here?
Yes. I've been using HLO since the beginning, and the Options Mismatch message has been wonky since Campaign Theater was released. It's a bummer.
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