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-   -   Realm Works Users' Vent in the HLO Forum (http://forums.wolflair.com/showthread.php?t=64732)

daplunk September 10th, 2020 11:36 PM

It's not for Farlings tool but the process is pretty much the same so these may help:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPVFCSsq1oI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PsJjkFnrNEw

Farling September 13th, 2020 04:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lancealittle (Post 290791)
Farling - iv not yet had to do this, but will need to sooner or later. I dont suppose you could make a short vid and post to youtube covering this subject ? an example to work from is much easier than stabbing in the dark...

Regards, Lancealittle

Not a video, but the instructions in the first post should be pretty simple to follow...
https://forums.wolflair.com/showthread.php?t=59981

Acenoid September 14th, 2020 05:00 PM

@Rob great to hear from you. Thank you for the big explanation. I hope some financial model will be identified, so work could continue. Maybe just with 1 developer to ensure a support, along with some volunteers from the community.
A kickstarter patreon or whatever could also provide some support in my opion.

And - I think - you have have proven your dedication (to me at least) numerous times on the forums, while RW was still in an active state.

Sometimes things just don't work out, but it would be great if RW would see some updates again :)

Good night!

Grey Mage September 15th, 2020 10:09 AM

@Rob,

if you are still checking in... I was a KS backer... and if you decided to move forward with RW development I would buy into a Patreon.

Just my 2 cents.

kbs666 September 16th, 2020 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grey Mage (Post 290868)
@Rob,

if you are still checking in... I was a KS backer... and if you decided to move forward with RW development I would buy into a Patreon.

Just my 2 cents.

I'd do a Patreon. Figure how much it would cost to do something and set it as a goal and then however long it takes is however long it takes.

Valyar September 16th, 2020 11:14 AM

I would support a model that does not force a monthly subscriptions and does not move the product to the web. Don't go into extortion business and all should be good.

RW is serious tool, should always retain desktop client for superior performance, offline and instant access to the data.

PS: Does anyone work on RW to fix the reported bugs?

daplunk September 16th, 2020 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valyar (Post 290881)
PS: Does anyone work on RW to fix the reported bugs?

It's hard to believe they do at this time given LWD didn't know about the issues with the latest patch. They don't read the forums and don'e read the support tickets based on the forum chit chat I've seen. :(

lancealittle September 16th, 2020 11:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by daplunk (Post 290884)
It's hard to believe they do at this time given LWD didn't know about the issues with the latest patch. They don't read the forums and don'e read the support tickets based on the forum chit chat I've seen. :(

As the saying goes, if ignorance is bliss, they must be the happiest folks around !

Exmortis September 17th, 2020 03:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valyar (Post 290881)
I would support a model that does not force a monthly subscriptions and does not move the product to the web. Don't go into extortion business and all should be good.

RW is serious tool, should always retain desktop client for superior performance, offline and instant access to the data.

PS: Does anyone work on RW to fix the reported bugs?

I agree with almost everything you say, and I wouldn't personally have an issue with some sort of paid support model, RW is worth spending a few bucks on monthly or what ever.

However I do not like the idea of an open Patreon model personally, I would actually rather some sort of subscription. The reason being simple: Patreon would mean the few pay for the many, and that's not a situation I want to be in. What could end up happening those with the most cash end up driving the direction of the product, which seriously could push away users and thus support from those who cant match the funds, you end up driving an inverse whirlpool.

I am not saying I have a perfect solution, but I have always been a supporter of subscription models. Like a user fee; tax payers support busses, but each person riding it must pay a user fee as an example. Yearly Subscription nets you updates, we just need to see the yearly plan. What I guess the million dollar question is, how much would need to be generated to support the development. I have many subscriptions I pay for many monthly/yearly and have no issue with RW having one if it is reasonable and we get some support as our RoI.

You want updates you pay a small support cost.

kbs666 September 18th, 2020 08:29 AM

I really do not mind those who are most interested paying for the new features that will bring in new users.

Mandatory subscription models are, to be nice about it, hated.

Farling September 18th, 2020 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kbs666 (Post 290901)
Mandatory subscription models are, to be nice about it, hated.

But for a product with such a small niche market, perhaps a necessary evil.

Substitution September 20th, 2020 11:19 AM

Today my friend mentioned World Anvil which sparked this memory for me.
I had just reformatted my computer so I went to redownload Realm Works today as I hadn't opened it in a year and wanted to see if it had been brought up to a useable standard after 7 years, but the link says that it cannot be downloaded securely by Google Chrome which makes me hesitant.

It's a shame how many things are conspiring against Realm Works success. The primary one is likely the psychological fear its failure has instilled in the developers that leads to hiding from it for more than a year at a time. Avoidance is a good way of maintaining good psychological health, but it doesn't improve the product to a marketable point or brainstorm monetization ideas.

I liked the bold and courageous attitude that once led to multiple statements of confidence like:
Quote:

Remember, we've been developing Realm Works for almost three years now. That stuff in the video isn't a bunch of prototypes or an unrealizable vision that you might have seen in other Kickstarters.
It is interesting to think of what could have been with a stronger integration to Hero Labs and a more presentable software. Now unfortunately the world is too different and the market much more saturated with subscription models that make more profit.

Exmortis September 21st, 2020 05:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kbs666 (Post 290901)
I really do not mind those who are most interested paying for the new features that will bring in new users.

Mandatory subscription models are, to be nice about it, hated.

Maybe, but reality around us shows they are successful, so much so almost everything is using them.

it does not have to be mandatory, if you don't pay you don't get updates, make it yearly so you pay for a year to get updates (could be monthly payment but 1 year term).

I guess my friend what do you hate more? RW left to rot in the annals of gaming history, or spending a few bucks and see it to fruition?

I get Robs statement, RW doesn't generate enough money to bring in a profit, business don't survive on air, they need profits. So, a sub model maybe the way for RW to bring in a modest cash flow for modest development. There is hope that improved RW will then generate more subs.

But I ask Rob to remember for some us, RW is not a $50 piece of software, add up my subs, initial purchase and my store purchases it represents a much larger investment. Hence greater disappointment (not enough to warrant personal attacks however).

Maidhc O Casain September 21st, 2020 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Exmortis (Post 290931)
But I ask Rob to remember for some us, RW is not a $50 piece of software, add up my subs, initial purchase and my store purchases it represents a much larger investment. Hence greater disappointment (not enough to warrant personal attacks however).

This. No personal attacks here - I get it. But I did back the Kickstarter at the Alpha Wolf level, so quite a substantial investment even before store purchases.

Twistedtechmike September 30th, 2020 05:59 AM

+1 here for a Patreon, or subscription model for Realm Works development.

We no longer play Pathfinder, even though I spent a small fortune in HLC, leaving RW the only software I am currently using, and I have yet to see anything else compare to its funcationality.

pyremius September 30th, 2020 06:03 AM

Same here - and the alpha wolf level was specifically to avoid dealing with a subscription.

nightpanda2810 October 21st, 2020 06:04 AM

Rob, it's been a while. We could use some sort of update here.

Farling October 22nd, 2020 12:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nightpanda2810 (Post 291495)
Rob, it's been a while. We could use some sort of update here.

Software update or Status update?
There won't have been any of either.

nightpanda2810 October 24th, 2020 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Farling (Post 291511)
Software update or Status update?
There won't have been any of either.

Anything. There have been quite a few responses since his last post, and its been almost 2 months.

Exmortis October 26th, 2020 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nightpanda2810 (Post 291546)
Anything. There have been quite a few responses since his last post, and its been almost 2 months.

This has all happened before, and it will happen again.

Dervish November 7th, 2020 09:03 PM

I have been away for a while. I had hoped to come back to more well rounded tool only to come back to nothing. Disappointing to say the least

Exmortis November 9th, 2020 03:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dervish (Post 291802)
I have been away for a while. I had hoped to come back to more well rounded tool only to come back to nothing. Disappointing to say the least

Well we did have our Bi-Yearly visit from Rob, but we have been put back on the bottom shelf again. So yeah, nothing new.

nightpanda2810 November 9th, 2020 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dervish (Post 291802)
I have been away for a while. I had hoped to come back to more well rounded tool only to come back to nothing. Disappointing to say the least

Quote:

Originally Posted by Exmortis (Post 291820)
Well we did have our Bi-Yearly visit from Rob, but we have been put back on the bottom shelf again. So yeah, nothing new.

Really disappointing.

Acenoid November 21st, 2020 11:19 AM

Xmas soon. Let's hope for so news at the end of the year.

In case no new post shows up in the meantime: Everyone stay in good health - and let's hope all of your wishes become true.

SenahBirdR December 11th, 2020 01:16 PM

Something that occurred to me recently. The importance of online organization has definitely increased for the current year. It likely won't stay quite as big in the future, but this is something to stay. Increasingly RPG companies that are not doing great support for the digital side of the company feel dated. Realm Works unfortunately could have had a really good year if it was still a supported program being developed.

I bought into Foundry during their Black Friday sale and so far I am loving it. Realm Works would be a perfect accompaniment to Foundry (or other VTTs) if an export/import tool was made for the programs. I would love to import certain journal entries from RW into Foundry. I would love to export text blocks of my Foundry elements directly into RW. Also, if the RW subscription actually came with the capability to host Foundry sessions in addition to hosting RW material that might push me over. Of course, what I still really want to make a subscription worthwhile is for players to be able to setup a free account that has web access to RW worlds.

More and more I'm finding myself using Realm Works less. As online games becomes more common I'm already doing a lot of text entry into a VTT. I need to get into the habit of cut and pasting between the programs since RW organizes much more nicely than the VTT programs and keeps me better prepared. Competitors like World Anvil haven't pulled me away, but seeing capability of other campaign organizers working with VTTs is tempting. It is just a natural fit to have these various programs able to communicate and transfer information.

I still hold out hope Lone Wolf changes their mind and decides to restart work on Realm Works. I think more companies would be interested in selling on the content market these days.

ShawnM December 22nd, 2020 07:59 PM

What's most disappointing for me is that there's a ton of great content ideas and supportive forum members for developers to draw from. How long have we waited for a calendar feature that works? How long do we have to wait for LW to answer questions or post a development?
I let my online subscription lapse last year in the spring and I had my laptop die this past summer.
Now onto my new laptop, I'm hoping to port the data with no issues, but the EA-level CRM that LW uses has me very worried.

In any case, what are people using for alternatives? I'm looking at World Anvil as a possible solution. That's not to say I couldn't start using Realm Works if they ever bothered to support their product for their customers, but I'm very unhappy that I spent $80 Canadian plus the online fees to get little more than what I get from One Note or Google Docs for relatively free.

In all seriousness though, what have people converted to? I'm more than open to hearing ideas.

ShawnM December 22nd, 2020 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SenahBirdR (Post 292302)
Something that occurred to me recently. The importance of online organization has definitely increased for the current year. It likely won't stay quite as big in the future, but this is something to stay. Increasingly RPG companies that are not doing great support for the digital side of the company feel dated. Realm Works unfortunately could have had a really good year if it was still a supported program being developed.

I bought into Foundry during their Black Friday sale and so far I am loving it. Realm Works would be a perfect accompaniment to Foundry (or other VTTs) if an export/import tool was made for the programs. I would love to import certain journal entries from RW into Foundry. I would love to export text blocks of my Foundry elements directly into RW. Also, if the RW subscription actually came with the capability to host Foundry sessions in addition to hosting RW material that might push me over. Of course, what I still really want to make a subscription worthwhile is for players to be able to setup a free account that has web access to RW worlds.

More and more I'm finding myself using Realm Works less. As online games becomes more common I'm already doing a lot of text entry into a VTT. I need to get into the habit of cut and pasting between the programs since RW organizes much more nicely than the VTT programs and keeps me better prepared. Competitors like World Anvil haven't pulled me away, but seeing capability of other campaign organizers working with VTTs is tempting. It is just a natural fit to have these various programs able to communicate and transfer information.

I still hold out hope Lone Wolf changes their mind and decides to restart work on Realm Works. I think more companies would be interested in selling on the content market these days.

I wholeheartedly agree. I AM considering World Anvil, simply because it looks like I can more easily exchange data. It's not a perfect tool, but I see customer updates. That's more than LW has done since shortly after I spent my $80 in early 2018. I keep hearing excuses of "it'll take a developer dedicating their time to ..." Well do that! Pay someone to do it. Take time from whatever else your doing and do that. Get an investor if you need to. Customers paid money and the model as it is is very monthly fee dependent thanks to CRM that is wholly unncessary.

MNBlockHead December 26th, 2020 11:08 PM

I am using Foundry and World Anvil. The two integrate so that I can easily port WA content in Foundry. For my 5e game, I'm currently running Rappan Athuk, a massive mega-dungeon, and rather than copying and recreating everything I entered into RW into WA, I'm just using the PDF and focusing on prepping the maps in Foundry.

With my Mage the Ascension 20th Anniversary game, I am starting a homebrew world from scratch and so am finally making an effort to get the most out of World Anvil. It is taking some time to get used to. I miss the auto-linking of Realmworks, but the at-type-ahead (type @ and start typing to link other content) works well enough.

My work requires me to spend long stints out of country, I can't install gaming software on my work computer, and I really don't want to have to lug around two laptops, so having everything online is really nice. Even if RealmWorks development restarted, I'm not sure I would go back to it.

I don't play Pathfinder or Starfinder, so I've not had a use for HeroLab. For my 5e games, we use D&D Beyond with a third-party plug-in to Foundry that imports character sheets, monsters, spells, and equipment from DDB to Foundry.

meek75 December 27th, 2020 06:00 AM

I use Roll 20 to run my virtual games and just don't use a RW type tool anymore. If I was to go back to it, I would probably ho with WA, but my players just don't use the tool enough to merit the fee, so I either organize directly in Roll 20 or use Google Suite. Google makes sharing easy, and is web based. For my in-person game, which is 5e, I use DDB for characters and rules references, Roll 20 to display maps and pictures, and Google. DDB implemented the buy-as-you-go method very well.

evildmguy December 27th, 2020 08:49 AM

I decided to take the plunge and went with World Anvil. Got a year with the thirty percent off sale. I think having that much of an investment means I will use it and spend the time to learn it. I currently use a (free) wiki and am also wondering if this will replace that at some point. I like to post session notes and plots, often in a form of prose, and to help remind myself. I don't know if I saw RW doing that or not originally but I was hoping the player versions would be more real time than what we got.

I'm maybe five hours into it and it's okay. I can make my own calendar. Heck, I can make several. I can put historical events on several timelines. This is not my full review of WA by any means.
  • I go to put in an event and when I finish, instead of going back to the screen to enter a new event, I'm editing that event. It's not bad, just me getting used to how it works and not what I would prefer. While I use event here, that happens with everything. I want to enter a bunch of placeholders for various organizations but there are extra clicks to get out of editing the new one and back to adding one.
  • Entering a new event and assigning it to a timeline doesn't mean it will show up nicely in the timeline. I can't figure out why but it creates orphan events.
  • As the owner/GM, I can't easily see or figure out how to see a subscriber/player point of view. That's been annoying.
  • I can't seem to enter PC information but have to invite them to do it? At least for me, my players might not so I want to be able to do that and maybe assign them

Having said that, this is a very shallow review. There looks to be potential for my wants, which is one timeline but holding multiple campaigns. It does appear that it can find some links or show me where things could link up. I will keep going and reporting. Further, there is a lot here, and maybe I shouldn't have reported, but hoping this will also nudge me to do more with WA and see how it works.

Here it is for any who want to see it or ask questions. Definitely a WIP. I'm trying to put events into this timeline for this version of FR. That means two previous campaigns, and the two current (lockdown) campaigns I have going. It does allow me to have one campaign use PF1 rules and another use 5E rules. They have character sheets for that but I haven't found a way to do anything with that yet.

https://www.worldanvil.com/w/forgotten-realms-evildmguy

Thanks!

edg

Merion December 28th, 2020 11:15 AM

The big question is: is there an importer for RW in World Anvil?

Because if I can't automate that to at least some extent, I'm not using the tool. Right now I'm toying with the idea of just shoving everything into Foundry VTT. I'd lose some functionality like plots, relationships and my hirarchical order, but it might be worth a try.
Foundry has an open API and is written in Javascript while Realm Works allows a XML output. It should be possible to write an RWImport module for Foundry without 'too' much effort - take content from certain tags and put it into certain js object properties - but I've been using Foundry for a week now, so me writing a module for it is nothing that will happen short term. Mid-term I might think about it if no one else is doing it.

evildmguy December 28th, 2020 12:54 PM

There is a planned API for WA but it is in dev and GET only right now. So, no importer. Maybe? It is json at the moment, so a converter to that would have to be written from RW's XML.

In the end, I didn't use RW for much. I did a lot at the beginning but since I didn't feel like RW allowed me to do improve and create an entire inn with staff easily on the fly, I didn't use it during the game. Once that happened, I found myself using RW less and less. I didn't like that because I would at least enter NPCs and put in their connections and then would see a lot really cool options I might not have.

I don't know that WA is the answer either. I just thought I would try it and see.

At the moment, I'm using a college ruled composition notebook. As the campaigns I'm running are happening about the same time and indirectly connected, one campaign is the front of the notebook and one started from the back.

Thanks!

edg

Acenoid December 30th, 2020 06:38 AM

Iam still actively using it.

Iam stioll hoping for the impossible - that they lit the torch again and provide some updates.

It's so great that this tool works offline - I don't want to have all my date in some webspace :)

Exmortis December 31st, 2020 12:27 PM

WA looks nice and pretty but as much as I hate to say it, RW just suits my style. It is some slick easy to design, build and revamp when you realize you went way off target.

For me, the ability to create my own categories and tags is the shiznat, almost all major canned categories have been replaced with my own.

Rob's vision was great, just wish he didn't lose the RW glasses, and we are not floating out into the ether alone.

H2Os January 9th, 2021 07:13 PM

Speaking of Rob, he hasn't posted since Oct. 22nd. Hope he's doing okay.

Valyar January 10th, 2021 11:10 PM

I presume they were all focused on launching PF 1...
Let's hope this is success so they have bucks to maintain whatever they need to maintain to keep RW and servers online.

Exmortis January 13th, 2021 03:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Exmortis (Post 292650)
WA looks nice and pretty but as much as I hate to say it, RW just suits my style. It is some slick easy to design, build and revamp when you realize you went way off target.

For me, the ability to create my own categories and tags is the shiznat, almost all major canned categories have been replaced with my own.

Rob's vision was great, just wish he didn't lose the RW glasses, and we are not floating out into the ether alone.

Looks like I may have to 180 on this statement, since the last update it has been a nightmare for me.

I have a PF rules realm I have been working on that is intended to be an import for any PF campaign world. Having all the rules in the mechanics reference. Since the last server update I can no longer sync this realm, and with nearly the entire CRB having been done, its a lot of work possibly lost. As usual the error is cryptic and may as well be the RW version of the check engine light.

Now I have a new issue, I have been working with my first realm getting it ready and it has been a dismal experience. It has been working fine for years, until now... I make any changes to a topic, it then will not sync and reports there is too much data in a snippet. Worse, I deleted a large topic, rebuild it from scratch typing it in all over again and expanding the work to 6 new topics, and I get a new too much data error on syncing again. Other than the all new snippets I moved a few snippets into new topics, which seems to be the catalyst for this, if I move a snippet from one topic to another I get this snippet size error...Which renders RW rather worthless to me, as I have a lot of topics I used as snippet and information repositories, which I then could build a topic structure from the snippets by moving them around. I worked on this realm that way since it was created. It is one RWs best features, I create a base topic, enter literally dozens of snippets pictures, maps etc. then build the topic structure top down moving snippets into these new topics and filling out the story and any required info.

I am at wits end, and it took years for my last support cases to generate a response, no idea how long these will take. A notebook with reams of paper, seems like the future again, with a loss of untold hours.

Lexin January 13th, 2021 04:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Exmortis (Post 293128)
I am at wits end, and it took years for my last support cases to generate a response, no idea how long these will take. A notebook with reams of paper, seems like the future again, with a loss of untold hours.

What a disaster! I'm so sorry to hear this.

At the moment I'm using Roll 20 and keeping notes on one of their little journals. It's not ideal and it's not the same as RW, which was superb, but so far it's just about working.

Farling January 13th, 2021 04:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Exmortis (Post 293128)
Now I have a new issue, I have been working with my first realm getting it ready and it has been a dismal experience. It has been working fine for years, until now... I make any changes to a topic, it then will not sync and reports there is too much data in a snippet. Worse, I deleted a large topic, rebuild it from scratch typing it in all over again and expanding the work to 6 new topics, and I get a new too much data error on syncing again. Other than the all new snippets I moved a few snippets into new topics, which seems to be the catalyst for this, if I move a snippet from one topic to another I get this snippet size error...Which renders RW rather worthless to me, as I have a lot of topics I used as snippet and information repositories, which I then could build a topic structure from the snippets by moving them around. I worked on this realm that way since it was created. It is one RWs best features, I create a base topic, enter literally dozens of snippets pictures, maps etc. then build the topic structure top down moving snippets into these new topics and filling out the story and any required info.

Did they ever implement a data limit for the cloud service?

I wonder if somehow all of your syncs are being rejected because some sort of account quota has been exceeded on the cloud system.

Parody January 13th, 2021 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Farling (Post 293135)
Did they ever implement a data limit for the cloud service?

They've never said we had one. (They have said that they may have tiers eventually, but things didn't get that far.)


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