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-   -   Realm Works Bug Fix Beta Release (Build 255) (http://forums.wolflair.com/showthread.php?t=63509)

Valyar July 6th, 2020 06:58 AM

I also sent ticket asking if they plan to release the .255 out of beta, and had the same answer. To be honest, I HOPE their business situation improves faster and at least to give some love to RW on the burning issues.

nightpanda2810 July 6th, 2020 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valyar (Post 289504)
I also sent ticket asking if they plan to release the .255 out of beta, and had the same answer. To be honest, I HOPE their business situation improves faster and at least to give some love to RW on the burning issues.

255 is broken anyway, so that would't be useful at all.

meek75 July 7th, 2020 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maidhc O Casain (Post 289486)
I recently put in a support ticket to ask about fixing the import/export bug and about the broken HL integration.

I was informed that because of the current high demand on LW resources from developing HLO and keeping up with the release schedule of PF2 material they don't have the manpower right now to track down and fix these bugs in RW.

And daplunk is correct - I've brought up RW and HLC issues in the HLO thread and gotten some response and information. Part of that information was that Rob is really only monitoring the HLO forums. And it's been a minute since he chimed in there as well.

This is what I suspected. I applaud those of you still here and keeping the hope alive, but by any meaningful measure RW is dead IMHO. The fact they are still selling the current build when it is broken saddens me. They are not even fixing critical errors, so it is a matter of time until the natural changes in tech and software make it truly dead. I can't imagine a circumstance where I would buy another LWD product at this point. They handled this badly from day one. After all the hours I invested in data entry, I am hesitant to go that route again with another service, my faith has been shaken severely, so I am waiting to see if any of the new campaign management products can establish a winning track record.

Maidhc O Casain July 7th, 2020 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valyar (Post 289504)
To be honest, I HOPE their business situation improves faster and at least to give some love to RW on the burning issues.

Just my opinion, but I believe that their business situation is a direct result of perpetually "biting off more than they can chew." It seems to me that from the moment they got the contract for PF1 from Paizo, the release schedule of new material has been right at the upper limit - and often over the upper limit - of what they've been able to keep up with. This has resulted in a constant pressure to push new content out the gates, and that content has often been released in an incomplete state with the disclaimers that it will be completed at a future date. (And to be fair, they did eventually get pretty much all of the Paizo PF1 stuff wrapped up).

That stayed the same with Realm Works, and has not changed with HLO and PF2. Some of us demand the shiny new toys from Paizo, and some demand the previously released material to be finished up, and some demand that HLO be further developed, and some demand Shadowrun stuff, and some demand...

And I freely admit that I'm on that list of "Some demand" people. Mostly what I want is for them to hire enough coders - temporarily at least - to squash the critical bugs in Realm Works so that we have a stable, relatively bug-free build for what it should already be able to do. Calendars is a bitter pill to swallow, but I could live more easily without them, if I could only integrate with HL again and import/export reliably.

Their answer to having more than a mouthful to chew on (again) appears to be to spit out the stuff that's no longer actively producing revenue and to focus on the things that are making money now. With apologies, of course, to those of us who paid them a total of $170,748 in the kickstarter, plus money for content after release, and those who purchased the product after the kickstarter was over, and did not - quite - get what we paid for. We got apologies, but no fixes so far.

I don't even pretend to know enough about the business side of their business to know whether this is impossible or whether it's possible but would eat into their profits too much, etc. Doesn't really matter. Our choices appear to be between choosing to find a way to be happy with what we've got and remaining bitter that we didn't quite get what we paid for.

And wow - that ended up being a LOT more than I started out to write :D

JustinThomason July 8th, 2020 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maidhc O Casain (Post 289528)
Mostly what I want is for them to hire enough coders - temporarily at least - to squash the critical bugs in Realm Works so that we have a stable, relatively bug-free build for what it should already be able to do. Calendars is a bitter pill to swallow, but I could live more easily without them, if I could only integrate with HL again and import/export reliably.

I am in complete agreement. I will forever be wistful for what might have been, but I am fine with the product as it stands.

I just can't believe they have left critical bugs like the import/export and HL integration languish like this.

Viking2054 July 9th, 2020 04:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maidhc O Casain (Post 289528)
Just my opinion, but I believe that their business situation is a direct result of perpetually "biting off more than they can chew." :D

I don't think you have the whole story. First, Rob the owner and main developer, was very sick for two or three years if I remember correctly. Second, there was a decision made as to the direction realm works needed to change which forced a near complete rewrite of the program after two to three years of development. Third, I suppose is the fact that the first two problems caused other problems and delays with all their products. Throw in the fact that some of us are epic level forum bitchers and things just kind of spiraled from there. Yes, I believe that LWD made a business decision in order to save their company. And, I know it sucks that development of RW has been suspended. But I do hope that they will someday return to further development of Realm Works. I'm just betting we are going to have to wait a few more years.

Maidhc O Casain July 9th, 2020 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Viking2054 (Post 289551)
I don't think you have the whole story. First, Rob the owner and main developer, was very sick for two or three years if I remember correctly. Second, there was a decision made as to the direction realm works needed to change which forced a near complete rewrite of the program after two to three years of development. Third, I suppose is the fact that the first two problems caused other problems and delays with all their products. Throw in the fact that some of us are epic level forum bitchers and things just kind of spiraled from there. Yes, I believe that LWD made a business decision in order to save their company. And, I know it sucks that development of RW has been suspended. But I do hope that they will someday return to further development of Realm Works. I'm just betting we are going to have to wait a few more years.

I also continue to hold out hope that they will return to RW, and I continue busily entering my homebrew world into it. But even if they don't they really should fix the bugs and make the existing features stable.

I do remember - vividly - the issues regarding Rob's health, and changing direction for RW. But their ability to keep up with the never ending barrage of Paizo releases affected more than just RW, it goes back to before the RW kickstarter - there were many Pathfinder releases for HLC that were noted for a long time as "not fully implemented," even as new supplements continued to be rolled out (also, sometimes, not fully implemented).

And my response from support regarding fixing just these two critical RW bugs was (and I'm paraphrasing here), "we've got too much on our plate right now, we're a small company and all of our manpower is focused on keeping up with PF2 and developing HLO. We'd like to get to it, but even if we can it will be a long time."

Further "evidence" of this can be found on the Shadowrun boards, where there has been deafening silence regarding Shadowrun releases/fixes for HLO, and in how long it took to get the new version of Savage Worlds tested and rolled out for HLC.

MNBlockHead July 9th, 2020 09:36 PM

As much as I have enjoyed and benefit from RealmWorks and still use it to a degree, I don't see how they come back to it. Too many competing products being actively developed.

Frog God Games just put their Lost Lands setting into World Anvil and I'm gobsmacked. It is a wonderful experience. For building your own worlds WA is pretty darn good as well.

Where it severely lacks is that you cannot easily integrate third-party content into your own world and campaigns. Lone Wolf Development struggled with this issue for years with Realm Works and it is so disappointing that just after they solved the issue, they had to give up on the project.

As I start to run my campaigns using other tools and fire up less and less, I just don't see myself going back to RW. Maybe if HLO brings enough revenue they can take what they learned with RW and build an online tool that integrates with HLO, which can compete with other campaign management solutions, but they lost their edge and it will be hard to catch up to the point where I would want to make ANOTHER costly and time-consuming change of campaign management tools to go back to them.

meek75 July 10th, 2020 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MNBlockHead (Post 289560)
As much as I have enjoyed and benefit from RealmWorks and still use it to a degree, I don't see how they come back to it. Too many competing products being actively developed.

Frog God Games just put their Lost Lands setting into World Anvil and I'm gobsmacked. It is a wonderful experience. For building your own worlds WA is pretty darn good as well.

Where it severely lacks is that you cannot easily integrate third-party content into your own world and campaigns. Lone Wolf Development struggled with this issue for years with Realm Works and it is so disappointing that just after they solved the issue, they had to give up on the project.

As I start to run my campaigns using other tools and fire up less and less, I just don't see myself going back to RW. Maybe if HLO brings enough revenue they can take what they learned with RW and build an online tool that integrates with HLO, which can compete with other campaign management solutions, but they lost their edge and it will be hard to catch up to the point where I would want to make ANOTHER costly and time-consuming change of campaign management tools to go back to them.

I agree totally with your sentiments. I am not sure where I am going to invest, but it won't be LWD. They have destroyed my faith in them. Please don't misunderstand, I think Rob and the crew are all great people and wish them well, but my RW experience makes me lack trust in their promises and ability to follow-through. In fact, I hesitate to put that much work into data entry with any application at this point. For now I use basic Google files for my in-person game and use the VTT for all else.

MattWll July 17th, 2020 06:25 AM

Thanks!


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