Lone Wolf Development Forums - Need core races for NPCs

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- HLO - Starfinder (http://forums.wolflair.com/forumdisplay.php?f=97)

- - Need core races for NPCs (http://forums.wolflair.com/showthread.php?t=60596)

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShadowChemosh (Post 265959)

See THIS thread for details. But a NPC is not built like a PC and you do not start with "race" to build a NPC monster. Regardless if you are trying to build a human solider you don't start with Human you start with type Humanoid and go from their.

Just a suggestion, but either this thread or the one linked by ShadowChemosh above should be made into a STICKY.

Personally, I'm really liking HeroLab Online. And while I was initially VERY resistant to NPCs being built by different rules than PCs, I'm finding that with SF the differences are slight enough that unless a character becomes a recurring NPC, the differences probably aren't worth the fuss.

However, trying to figure out how to build the NPCs was much less intuitive and was taking longer than making PCs until I found these threads. That's not a knock at Lone Wolf since they're just adapting the NPC rules, but it was counter-intuitive to not select Race-->Human when HLO was constantly prompting me to select a race!

Now that I know to use Custom Race as my starting point when building anything other than a premade Alien/"Named Encounter" NPC, it goes much more quickly.

I do think having "stock race baseline" with base options autoselected would be more intuitive, but the current NPC build system works just fine. But it could be a bit clearer that Custom Race is a typical starting point.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jlong05 (Post 265973)

This is largely where I ran into issues in the understanding of player races as NPCs, because the new player races in AA were presented as a traditional race instead of as a humanoid that you then selected as a subtype selection. The consistency for this isn't clear and it is confusing because of this.

Maybe I am misunderstanding the issue you are running into please disregard this if I am), but you can select the races from Alien Archive to create an NPC with Hero Lab Online. Select "Custom Race" for the NPC, Select "Humanoid" for the Creature Type Graft, then select the humanoid subtype (e.g. vesk, kish, reptoid, etc.) using the Creature Subtype Graft table.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jlong05 (Post 265973)

I understand that LW can't/shouldn't make up rules, but this is where there should be some communication back with Paizo to better explain how this should work, especially when you see AA races also as options. Personally, I think the AA races should be base AA rules for Monster use, with the ability to follow the custom NPC rules using the player races in AA following the same rule building design from the Core book. That would keep consistency and be more clear.

You can still create an NPC using the same rules as a PC. I am not entirely sure how balanced that would be, but you could certainly do it. Just roll up a PC and use it as an NPC.

As far as I know, the rules for NPC building in Starfinder are similar to what Paizo used for Pathfinder 1st Ed. The Bestiaries have a "Monster Creation" appendix at the back which have tables for stats, grafts for different creature types/subtypes. Feel free to correct me if I am wrong. I haven't GM'd a Pathfinder game before so it isn't something I am super familiar with.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wheredoigo (Post 267893)

The confusion is coming from the idea that GM wants to just add "Human" or "Elf" as the race and go to town. Its a fall out from the way PF1 does stuff and not yet common knowledge that Starfinder does not build NPCs that way.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wheredoigo (Post 267893)

You can still create an NPC using the same rules as a PC. I am not entirely sure how balanced that would be, but you could certainly do it. Just roll up a
PC and use it as an NPC.

I would advise against this as PC and NPC math is very different. PCs have much higher AC but lower attack values. NPCs have very low AC but much higher attack values. Other differences but those are the most obvious. Why this could be fun for a boss/sub-boss encounter it does not go well for what should be easy combat encounters. The higher AC means it could feel like a slug with everyone missing each other.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wheredoigo (Post 267893)

As far as I know, the rules for NPC building in Starfinder are similar to what Paizo used for Pathfinder 1st Ed. The Bestiaries have a "Monster Creation" appendix at the back which have tables for stats, grafts for different creature types/subtypes. Feel free to correct me if I am wrong. I haven't GM'd a Pathfinder game before so it isn't something I am super familiar with.

Actually its very different from PF1 rules. Its much closer to the Unchained Pathfinder rules which where 'optional' and not used by everyone. PF1 monsters attempt to use the same rules as the PCs so that hit dice equals level and require spending resources like skill ranks and feats. Starfinder is designed to use fast generation rules without needing to deal with lots of small minutia of details.

Thanks for clarifying some points for me, ShadowChemosh!