Tags, am I using them wrong or is it a bug..?

[zeepee]

Hi fellow Realm Workers,

Just a curious question. We recently added Realm Works to our gaming table, both the GM and Player's version. Me as the GM quickly discovered how useful the software is (thank you LWD) and started to plot out our gaming world.

I have been using tags quite a bit, as I like the "drop down" lists as well as the search features, so I added a bunch of new tags to flesh out characters.

However, in our last game I really shot myself in the foot, as I had created a new tag under race defining who was a vampire, and who was not.
I thought when snippets wasn't revealed, then players could not see them, but it turned out that all defined tag snippets are visible and searchable, revealed to players or not (visible in the tags list on the right side of the screen in players view).

So before I start converting all my "tag snippets" to "text snippets" in order to hide them from my players, I just wanted to ask if this is intentional or a bug..?

If intentional, is it then possible to hide tags from players view or are tags not supposed to be hideable...?

If it's a bug, is there any chance that you could prioritize fixing this, as it makes tags nearly unusable, as all of them are visible to players (the moment they are defined).

If I am using tags wrong, somebody please educate me..



Hope I make sense and not made to many spelling errors..


/Zeepee

 

[Viking2054]

I might consider using a relationship. I'd define my vampire or vampire society in a text snippet and then link anyone NPC, PC, or Monster that is part of that society by a relationship. Then the relationship can be revealed or not revealed as you please.

 

[rob]

Is the tag assigned via a snippet? Or is it assigned explicitly to the topic via the transitions pane on the right? If the former, the visibility of the vampire tag SHOULD be tied to the reveal state of the snippet. If the latter, the tag will ALWAYS be visible.

Based on your post, I'm going to assume that you assigned the tag via a snippet. If the snippet has NOT been revealed, then it's likely a bug that slipped through during all the Player Edition testing. Could you please confirm this is the case? It sounds like it, but I want to be certain.

If it's a bug, we'll make sure to get it fixed in the next release. It might also be something we can fix solely on the server, in which case we MAY be able to fix it sooner.

Thanks!

 

[zeepee]

Is the tag assigned via a snippet? Or is it assigned explicitly to the topic via the transitions pane on the right? If the former, the visibility of the vampire tag SHOULD be tied to the reveal state of the snippet. If the latter, the tag will ALWAYS be visible.

Based on your post, I'm going to assume that you assigned the tag via a snippet. If the snippet has NOT been revealed, then it's likely a bug that slipped through during all the Player Edition testing. Could you please confirm this is the case? It sounds like it, but I want to be certain.

If it's a bug, we'll make sure to get it fixed in the next release. It might also be something we can fix solely on the server, in which case we MAY be able to fix it sooner.

Thanks!

Hi Rob,

Thanks for the quick reply.

The tags are assigned by the snippets, the problem also occurs on the default Realm Work tags like Race, Class, Character Role, Condition etc. under the People category, which is not always ideal for players to know beforehand..


/Zeepee

 

[zeepee]

Hi Rob,

Thanks for the quick reply.

The tags are assigned by the snippets, the problem also occurs on the default Realm Work tags like Race, Class, Character Role, Condition etc. under the People category, which is not always ideal for players to know beforehand..


/Zeepee

Just a quick add:

Though I tested it on the Player edition to make sure of the problem, it is actually very easy to test, as the unrevealed snippet tags are also visible in the GM edition under "Enter Player Mode" (right side of the screen under "Tags").


/Zeepee

 

[rob]

Alright, this definitely sounds like a bug.

FYI, the Player Mode Preview is a *simulation* of what players will see. If there's a bug in the Preview logic, that's entirely separate from what's actually done for Player Edition. So it's quite possible for an issue to show up in one place but not the other. It sounds like this particular issue shows up in both places, and I'm stunned that nobody on the Beta team spotted this during Player Edition testing. Ah well, we'll get it fixed!

 

[zeepee]

Alright, this definitely sounds like a bug.

FYI, the Player Mode Preview is a *simulation* of what players will see. If there's a bug in the Preview logic, that's entirely separate from what's actually done for Player Edition. So it's quite possible for an issue to show up in one place but not the other. It sounds like this particular issue shows up in both places, and I'm stunned that nobody on the Beta team spotted this during Player Edition testing. Ah well, we'll get it fixed!

That sounds great..!

Thanks prioritizing this, it will save me from a lot of re-typing work..

Again, thanks for the great software, can't wait to see what you guys will add to it in 2015.


/Zeepee

 

[storeyl]

The above seems to discussing the right side of the screen.

Just to add that on the left side of the screen I can search by tag to filter what is visible in the almanac. This also seems to ignore the reveal state of tags snippets. I have several Lycanthropes which are not revealed, but if you filter by lycanthrope then it shows who is one, even though it hasn't been revealed. This only works if the topic itself has been revealed though.

PS that is using enter player mode from a GM version of the software (I can't test it as a proper player can I?, which is annoying, as it is not the first time I've seen what appears to be a reveal bug that is really just the GM simulation).

 

[davidp]

Just a quick add:

Though I tested it on the Player edition to make sure of the problem, it is actually very easy to test, as the unrevealed snippet tags are also visible in the GM edition under "Enter Player Mode" (right side of the screen under "Tags").


/Zeepee

I just tested this with one computer running GM edition and a second computer running player edition. I revealed a topic and a tag-based snippet, synced up and then synced down and on the player edition, I only saw the single revealed tag-based snippet (out of a total of four). I then also concealed that snippet and revealed a different tag snippet and it looked fine again after syncing.

I did see the bug in the GM edition with "Enter Player Mode" that it shows the tags on the right and with filtering by tags, but none of that showed up with the player edition.

Could you post some screen shots from the GM edition and then also from the perspective of a player edition for what you are seeing? That may give us more of a clue as to what you might be seeing and in determining what the problem might be.

 

[storeyl]

I don't think the above was aimed at me, but is there a way to test as a proper player version? Using my normal account. It would be nice if there was.

 

[davidp]

I don't think the above was aimed at me, but is there a way to test as a proper player version? Using my normal account. It would be nice if there was.

Not really. You would need a separate account (GM or player) and login on a different machine or under a different Windows account on the same machine.

The intention is that we fix any issues in the Player Mode of the GM edition so that it does show what players would see.

 

[zeepee]

I just tested this with one computer running GM edition and a second computer running player edition. I revealed a topic and a tag-based snippet, synced up and then synced down and on the player edition, I only saw the single revealed tag-based snippet (out of a total of four). I then also concealed that snippet and revealed a different tag snippet and it looked fine again after syncing.

I did see the bug in the GM edition with "Enter Player Mode" that it shows the tags on the right and with filtering by tags, but none of that showed up with the player edition.

Could you post some screen shots from the GM edition and then also from the perspective of a player edition for what you are seeing? That may give us more of a clue as to what you might be seeing and in determining what the problem might be.

Hi David,

Sure, I will make some screenshots of the problem later tonight (Danish time) when I am back from Work and post them in this thread..


/Zeepee

 

[zeepee]

I just tested this with one computer running GM edition and a second computer running player edition. I revealed a topic and a tag-based snippet, synced up and then synced down and on the player edition, I only saw the single revealed tag-based snippet (out of a total of four). I then also concealed that snippet and revealed a different tag snippet and it looked fine again after syncing.

I did see the bug in the GM edition with "Enter Player Mode" that it shows the tags on the right and with filtering by tags, but none of that showed up with the player edition.

Could you post some screen shots from the GM edition and then also from the perspective of a player edition for what you are seeing? That may give us more of a clue as to what you might be seeing and in determining what the problem might be.

Hi David / Rob,

I have tried doing different test this evening, but I can't seem to trigger the bug on the Player's edition anymore..

Soo... As I can only reproduce the bug on the GM edition of Realm Works, maybe the Player's edition is not affected after all, as I can't rule out that I maybe revealed a snippet by mistake, mistaken one tag listing from another or I forgot to sync both editions in my last test.

I am going to test the Player's edition a bit further regarding this issue to see if I somehow can reproduce bug on the Player's edition as well. If I can, I will post my findings here along with instructions and screendumbs of what I did.

But until then, consider this bug "GM edition-only"..


Sorry for the confusion.


/Zeepee