Skill descriptions
 

Did the skill descriptions change? I thought each skill described the actions you could take in detail. Now it just seems to list the actions the skill can be used for with no further explanation.

This was one of the most frequently used things in HLO for me—reminders of how various skill actions worked. What happened?

I just noticed that this morning and they also broke the Performance skill description.

Agreed. I am very disappointed that this convenient functionality was removed.

I’m surprised more people aren’t complaining about this. I don’t see a single mention of it on either the general or Starfinder groups. The convenience of having the detailed skill descriptions was a very large reason I am a regular supporter. If this isn’t reverted back, I am will be seriously considering other options.

I wish someone would respond with an official position. Is this the new normal for skills in HLO? 'Cause I'll definitely be using HLO a lot less because of this.

Hey folks,

This system of viewing that kind of information is part of a general overhaul that is actually already underway whereby the rules can be looked up directly by way of the newly implemented Vault feature.

That said, the way we have things working at the moment is something of a compromise as what we have in place right now is not at all the final version or iteration of the Vault system that we have planned out.

So, at this phase, I would describe the following instructions as a kind of workaround until we have everything in place to bring tighter integration between the Character building features and the Vault itself so bear in mind that while this does require a handful of extra click/taps we believe that this can not only provide the info you're looking for but also a whole swath of additional functionality to view rules for all sorts of stuff way beyond simply the Skill Actions and descriptions.

To get at what you're looking for you should check the top of the webpage GUI where you'll see the word Vault in between the navigation tabs labeled Character and Campaign, and once you select that you'll be brought to the book selector (at the moment we only have the Core Rulebook implemented but as you can see on that page this is just the beginning) where you'll choose the CRB. Once you can find navigation panels to the left for the Chapters and on the right another section to quickly navigate to different sections of whatever Chapter you have open so for Skills you'll either locate the Skills Chapter and select it to browse that section or if you have something specific in mind such as the Shove Athletics Action you can simply choose the Search option near the top left side of the GUI and type in "Shove" which will bring up options to navigate to the various relevant areas of the book that discuss the term you searched for.

Again, the whole Vault system is something we're working on to try to integrate as seamlessly as possible into the service and you can expect changes and improvements to take place, but in terms of getting the concrete rules into your hands, the Vault already has huge potential to be a boon for getting more detailed information swiftly without having to use outside references such as PDFs or other SDS websites/tools.

that's more steps than just googling it. another step backwards in terms of usability, sigh

Thanks, Ryan. I appreciate the update and the plans for the Vault. As user feedback, unless the Vault integration functions as hover items, or pop-up windows, or similar, it's going to be a downgrade.

Ultimately, the primary requirements from my perspective is 1) speed of access and 2) not having to leave the character sheet. If we have to open another tab or do a search to get to information that used to be contained in the skill description it's a big step backwards.

It's also disappointing to see features get removed before their replacements are ready to go. Whether or not the Vault turns out to be a good alternative, I would have liked to see the skill action details remain in the skill description until it's ready.

To my understanding the functionality will be a popover of some sort, but as Ryan said it's still developing.

As for the removal, there were some concerns about the presentation of the material and issues that were occurring there. I'm not precisely aware of the details, just the hand that swings the sword on this one, but it was likely due to some of the text encoding/changes related to those made for the Vault. As someone who uses Athletics a lot though, I hear you, but it wound up being awkward either way unfortunately.

Is Vault access to books going to be included with the dataset purchases or will it be separate?

Is this question answered somewhere else?

At this point in time, we haven’t completely finished ironing out all the little details with regard to how the Vault book access works yet but we’ll be releasing any of the access and possible purchase/pricing information in the weeks ahead.

Thanks!

I hadn't even considered this. I hope there is no additional cost for the Vault. To remove things like the skill descriptions and put them in a different feature that costs extra—that would be bad.

I'm looking forward to seeing how this all settles out. As it stands, I'm using HLO less and less for running games and pretty much solely for character creation and as a player. There's just way too much I have to look up elsewhere to justify the effort needed to create encounters in Campaign Theater.

Did this change also affect feats? I may be misremembering but I thought HLO used to tell us the access requirements for feats.

Like Devoted Guardian—didn't the text once say that Knights of Lastwall have access? Now it just says the option needs GM permission.

(And if it was never there, please consider this a request to add it. There are a ton of uncommon things that players can get access to through other character choices. Just stating that it requires GM permission isn't just unhelpful, it's wrong.)

There's never been messaging in the same way that pre-reqs do. Some feats have an Access line in their description (Hellknight Dedication for instance) where others do not, usually because they're under an umbrella described in the header of their section in the book. This is the case with Devoted Guardian, as LO KoL lists that members of the KoL have access to these new feats, but none of the individual feats have an Access line. I'll log it to see if we can improve messaging for that, regardless of if the description actually includes that line or not.

So now that the Vault is out, I'm resurrecting my thread to say again how disappointed I am in this decision. I cannot believe that HLO removed the skill rules from the skills themselves just to make us look them up in another area that we now have to pay extra for.

As far as I can tell, despite buying every single rule package that's been offered for HLO, none of these provide any access to the actual rules now resident in the Vault. Am I missing something? Or do I really need to buy the APG, and then the APG in the Vault?