Mapping software
 

Having had a bit more practice with RW, I am really keen to use the maps section for my games, but have not yet invested in mapping software.
The two I have come across are dundjinni and the various Profantasy programs

Any thoughts as to advantages and disadvantages, or of course any other progtams?

Thanjs

I'm a Campaign Cartographer user.

Pros:
Awesome maps, really flexible.

Cons:
Expensive! Costs a lot to get all of the features you'll probably want.
Steep learning curve. But once you know how it works, it's really quick and easy to use.

Not that I've had to do much RPG mapping lately, but I draw maps in my desktop publishing program. (MultiAd Creator, though new projects will likely be started in InDesign.)

While I've owned them for years (I picked up a package of most of them in the CC2 era) I have yet to spend the time figuring out Campaign Cartographer and its related programs. It's hard going between the DTP and CAD worlds. :(

Dundjinni hasn't been updated for years, which makes me want to stay away from it. My only experience with it was a very long time ago and I never got it working correctly.

I've been using Fractal Mapper for years. It's easy to use and pretty powerful.

I'm very happy with Campaign Cartographer. And the new version CC3+ is a major improvement in speed. It'll take a few months for all the add-ons to get converted over to the new format but the forums are helpful, the program is intuitive (AFTER you learn it) and the tutorials (which are a must) are helpful.

Mapping software is an investment of both time and money....

I use Fractal Mapper and Campaign Cartographer and while CC3 does have a healthy learning curve there is a resource Joe Sweeny has a set of tutorials on you tube that are excellently done.

Agree to all of this. I am really happy with CC3, though it did take time and patience to get past the learning curve. Highly recommended.

I also use Fractal Mapper and Campaign Cartographer, but it requires an investment of money and especially time. I ended up hiring someone to create a professional looking version of my world map so I could print as a poster for my game room. But I use CC3 for putting together area maps. What I love most about CC3 is the City Builder add-on that allows me to quickly generate an entire city. I can also trace along a road and have it fill in houses of various sizes. I use the city features more than anything else because it really saves a lot of time in creating cities, villages, and towns. It is also great for area and world maps, which is its main use for most people. If you spend the time learning it, you can put together some professional looking maps quickly, but it really isn't very time saving IMHO. The city builder, though, that makes the price of the entire product worth it, saves time and tons of fun.

I second this. Great video tutorials for CC3

I have and have used CC3, Fractal Mapper, and Hexographer - depending on what I need.

I don't know about the recent CC3 update, so I'm not sure what the learning curve is now, but in the past it wasn't minor. On the other hand, it is capable of making some incredible maps.

Fractal Maps is a pretty easy program to use - it's my choice for a quick battlemap or whatnot.

Hexographer is a mapping program that I primarily use for my overland/world map - as the name suggests, it marks everything by way of hexes. Simple to use, it's really easy to make what you want.

I'm a CC3 guy all the way. it does have a learning curve, and once you get past that it is amazing.

Thanks for all the inputs - seems we have a lot of CC3 fans. May have to stump up the cash (cant spend it on RW Content yet so might as well!)

I use CC3 (now CC3+) and I love it. I can make a 500 mile x 500 mile map in about 10 minutes that looks good (30 minutes makes it look excellent).

Watch the videos by Joe Sweeney (pirate island) and you pretty much have the basics enough to make great maps.

A suggestion if you decide to get into Campaign Cartographer. Buy just CC3 (or CC3+ if you can). Start using it then buy the add-ons. If it saves you money by buying the add-ons with CC3, then don't install them right away. Play with the base line program to start. Get use to the program before you buy all the add-ons other wise you will be overwhelmed by the sheer "I can do everything but don't know how to do anything".

Thanks for the tips - I was about to ask about all the cartographer symbols, symbol sets etc!

It's not like there's a lot of choices for specialized software for this purpose. :)

Dunjinni seems very close to being abandoned. The owner hasn't been seen online in at least two years, and the software hasn't been updated.

Fractal Mapper is probably the cheapest option. Although many people swear by its simplicity, I've never managed to work it out. I do like its random world creator, though.

I've used CC for years. It's the more expensive option (you'll probably want CC3, Dungeon Designer 3 and City Designer 3, with other add-ons depending on particular requirements). But it's precise, flexible and powerful. You get what you pay for.

For me, it depends on what type of map.. and how much detail / often I anticipate its use..

CC3- if I intend to repurpose dungeon and city type maps
Dungeon Crafter III for a quick dungeon map with just a room or two. This is very customizable and low learning curve, but has its limitations.

IF I have the time.. (hahah) I use a combo of Worldmachine and Carrara with a sprinkling of Bryce and Photoshop. This combo produces superior 3d / iso type maps, but I only do that for maps I intend to use over and over.

CC3 I won't go into since most are familiar with its capabilities.
Examples:

Dungeon Crafter - Example
http://forums.wolflair.com/attachmen...1&d=1427255408
World Machine Top View of a Canyon
http://forums.wolflair.com/attachmen...1&d=1427253343
Iso View in World Machine
http://forums.wolflair.com/attachmen...1&d=1427254027
3D View with Carrara
http://forums.wolflair.com/attachmen...1&d=1427253471

Joe over at Inkwell Ideas has Cityographer & Dungeonographer which are both fairly good with low learning curve
see here>http://cityographer.com/

Just my 2cp
DLG

Thanks for all the advice - I have invested in CC3+

I am feeling that learning curve right now. I have done some real basic stuff almost instantly, but trying to do anything even remotely funky leads me pretty quickly into a hole.

As an aside: Is it odd that in one post on this forum I have spoken about how I would like to invest less time in using RW by buying content, and yet in another, I am ploughing ahead in learning yet more time consuming software. Anybody else find themselves in the same position???

Since you've taken the big plunge and snagged CC3+, I'd first like to welcome you to the ranks of insane GMs who buy software just for gaming, but I'd also like to strongly recommend the Tome of Ultimate Mapping for use with CC. It's (surprise!) a bit of money, but is a complete set of documentation, a comprehensive guide, and has some truly fantastic handy-dandy tips and tricks that the CC3 manual doesn't cover.

Next: work through the tutorial in CC. This is not a piece of pick-up-and-play software. You're already aware of the learning curve (and I'm glad it hasn't put you off), but the tutorial walks you through things brilliantly. I'd recommend doing all of the tutorial before even trying your own map. It teaches you good habits you won't learn if you just jump in.

Good luck!

@ Chelmak
Does buying RW not get me into the Insane GM club?

Thanks for the tip on the Tome, I was strongly considering it, but i think i will get it printed, as i find it hard to read on screen.

Have already tried the whole pick up and play thing with a small amount of success but as mentioned found myself in a world of hurt. Am indeed going back to tutorials now!

Campaign Cartographer and Fractal Mapper are somewhat similar in my opinion. I use CC3 right now personally. The learning curve is there as many people have mentioned but the time invested was worth learning it. And it beats drawing many of these maps by hand.

Buying 1 piece of software for GM'ing only gets you weird looks. Buying two pieces of software gets you into the 'committed' category. Buying 3 pieces of software for GMing is classified as insane. Since we all know no one has EVER bought more than 3 pieces of software for GMing we can reasonably say that 1 is good enough for a membership into the Insane GM club.

I repeat for anyone listening, no one has ever, in their life, even considered buying more than 3 pieces of software to aid in GMing.

Hero Lab + Realm Works + CC3, looks like I'm a certified nutter! ;)

Hero lab,Realm works,The Keep,Fractal Mapper, Fractal Terrains, CC3 and CC3+,DD3,CD3,D20pro, Advanced Dungeons and Dragons core rules 2 and expansion. I supported Kickstarters for Mote,D20pro unlimited, Obsidian Portal, and otherworld mapper. I support those people who make tools that make my life as a GM easier I am more than a bit certifiable

Not to mention some of us have been creating game aids on their computers since before some of their current players were born.

I'm in the same boat as Aaron. Somehow a game based entirely on imagination has become an extremely expensive hobby!

Okay, let's see if I can get this right...

CC (the original), DD (the original), The Profantasy Worldbuilder Bundle (because I'm not going to remember everything that comes in it), CC3+, ToUM, Hero Lab (multiple licences, multiple game systems), Realm Works (GM edition kickstarted and a 5-pack of player editions), AD&D Core Rules 2 & Expansion.

Can't think of anything else, but I am the current caretaker of the Ultimate Campaign Kingdom Tracking Spreadsheet.

Yep, I'm an outright nutter.

While I to support those that make tools that make my DMing easier, I trump that with I will also at times pull their chains. :eek: Here's to ya Rob:D

Parody has a valid point.... when you can say you have tools that are older than your players, I think that elevates it to Royal Nutter.

LOL this made me laugh out loud... SO TRUE, what was a divirsion some 30 years ago because we as a group couldn't afford to go out, it became a pastime of pizza and dungeon crawl ( hey what else can you do for 8 people with $20?)... Now all these years later, I have an insane game room (insert "thanks to the wife" plug here) and can come on varied forums (back in my day they were bulletin boards) and talk with folks on our shared terminal affliction.

Humm, I would be embarrassed to list all of the varied softwares, tools, etc I have utilized. Lets just say I've pretty much seen them all. When you have close to $20k (adjusted to current market pricing) just in lead figures @ an average of $3 each, I think that alone would qualify me as a Royal Nutter

DLG
Royal Nutter
& Unofficial Rob Bad Guy Dog house Occupant :D

Back to the Thread...
for all in general, I think when making a map of any kind there should be some questions asked first.

1. How will I utilize the map?

   Do I see this printed out as a handout?
   As a Battle Map?
   As an Electronic map for use as display or Virtual Table Top?

2. Do I see this map as a one shot and throw away?
3. Do I intend to revisit, or reuse map in the future?
4. Do I intend to update the map?
5. Do I intend to share the map with others for their use?

I'm sure there are more things to consider, but those above would cover most.
Once you can define each of those it will help in your selection of the "right tool for the job".
Consider also if you intend on printing the map...

1. How large does it need to be?
2. Can my printer do that size?
3. 3rd party printing might be cheaper than killing my cartridges in my printer?

General Support Considerations

1. How much $ can I afford to put toward the tool?
2. How much time can I spend Learning the tool and then utilizing it?
   This one is a tough one, When the point is to "play the game" you don't want to spend more than a quantifiable amount of your "free time" to support your "game time". All of our time is demanded from may directions. LDW (and others) are making a living selling you a solution to getting the most value from your time spent in support of your gaming time. DMing is a passion, its not for everyone.
3. How much (electronically) will be required to use the tool to its full benefit?
   Meaning> Do you have enough PC, Printer, Monitor, etc to use the tool effectively. Often times I have had to upgrade hardware to support the use of new software. Which equates to $ also.

Once that is determined not only does the "tool" have to be considered, but the file format as well. So consider that as you choose your next tool.

my 2cp
DLG

@DLG, i did indeed consider all these things, and ensured my wife signed off on it - she raised the same points as you: If you spend this much on it, are you actually going to use it enough to make it worthwhile?

My answer was yes (hopefully). WIll have to invest in the other symbol sets at some point though.

Is it worth getting the annuals though, once i am more acquainted with the program?

Keep in mind that gaming is a hobby. And hobbies make us happy. And happiness is priceless. :)

My wife helped me put things in perspective a year ago when I was trying to justify buying a new sleeping bag for over $300. And a new backpack. And maybe a new pair of boots. I recently added up the cost of my gear for a typical outing and was shocked that it was over $1500. For roughing it.... Anyways, back to my wife. She grew up skiing pretty frequently. She asked me how much I'm paying for lodging on the trail (nada), how much for food ($15-20 for a weekend), how much for travel ($20ish) and how often do I replace gear (almost never). Then she pointed out that between gear, gas, lodging and eating out, skiing and most other sports hobbies made my outdoors budget look downright thrifty. I bought the sleeping bag and didn't feel guilty.

For me, CC3 is the same way. My wife may some day regret putting things into perspective.... ;)

All decent mapping software has a learning curve, and neither CC3 nor FM8 are small here; the former is probably more versatile, while the latter is somewhat (but only somewhat) easier to use.

I like AEIOU am a long time owner and just now mapper with Campaign Cartographer.

I just posted my first ever official work over at ProFantasy, check it out would love your feed back. Consider this a half a days work or so by an amateur, second full map attempt. When I was originally starting it, checked the Profantasy site for some tips, saw the new version was close, so decided to wait, it was worth it!

This was done using CC3+ and Mike Schley style which is just amazing!
http://forum.profantasy.com/comments...&page=1#Item_0

I am loving CC3+ the only thing i can see is that the mountains are a bit large for my taste but they are not wrong its just a matter of preference

Change the scale? You can make them as big or small as you like.

That looks brilliant. I have seen a lot of really incredible looking maps from CC3+ users, but am so far away from that right now!

This can be done manually before placement by holding Ctrl and moving the mouse up and down, as well as more precisely by selecting the entity and editing the scale.

By right mouse clicking just before placing the feature (while the feature is in the mouse). Note that CC3/CC3+ remembers your set scale so you will have to change it back when/if you want the original scale

I use Hexographer in the Pro version.

I have been looking at the other tools (CC3, Fractal Mapper among others).

I love the maps I have seen others make, but alas, I neither have the patience nor the skill - not to mention the time - to pull that off.

I have had Hexographer for 2-3 weeks now and have got more mapping done already than I ever had in my entire life previously.

It is easy and fast to make maps and it is a surprisingly versatile and strong program.

I will recommend it if you like me need an easy and fast tool to make maps today that you need tomorrow at the gaming table.

My main concern is getting places and natural features placed in relation to another, so that I can look at it and make my story consistent (at least as far as the geography is concerned). All the blows and whistles of CC3 gets in the way for me as I end up spending more time on making a short coastline (and not even a good one at that) than I do on preparing for the game itself.

But boy, does the CC3 maps look beautiful when done by someone who knows what they are doing. :-)

Hexographer is good for what it is, but people need to be aware what that is: terrain hex maps (and Traveller style sector/system maps); if you also want something for buildings or battlemaps, its not going to do it.