Lone Wolf Development Forums - PFS question, not HL-specific

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- - PFS question, not HL-specific (http://forums.wolflair.com/showthread.php?t=59629)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azhrei (Post 259461)

Hm, I hadn’t seen sniper goggles, I’ll have to look into that. Thanks.

Nope, no UMD. That’s why I took a level of wizard. :D I am putting a few points into UMD for easy access to clerical wands, but I don’t expect to use UMD much for combat purposes...

Spell storing ioun stone is only 2k, and holds first level spells, does not require UMD, is only a standard action to activate and does not provoke AoO's. You can also get any spell caster to throw a spell in it ahead of time (including personal range spells), and can have multiple around you. My high level fighter has Shield, Bless Weapon, and Enlarge Person available to him at all times.

Thanks, good to know. Right now, 2k is way more $$$ than I have available, but those sound like nice items.

I think the most useful for my rogue might be silence and greater invisibility which are too high level to be stored in the stone; I could probably find other uses, though. :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azhrei (Post 259360)

There are a lot of people here who have more experience with the various Paizo source books than I have, so I beg your help. :)

In a game a couple days ago, two rogues in our party were invisible and moved to surround an enemy mage and take them out. The GM said my attack would be a regular attack, albeit with the benefits of being invisible, but that it wouldn't be a coup de grace since the target wasn't "helpless". That's fine, but it meant the three rounds spent getting into position were rather wasted since the rogue could've been more proactive against other combatants.

So here's my plan for next time. I will buy three small sacks with leather straps used to cinch the openings. While invisible, I'll pull the sack over the head of the target from behind them. It would be easy enough for the target to pull the sack off, so I want to put some kind of spring-loaded "fishing reel" on the leather strap that will suck up all of the slack. In an ideal world, it would work like a wind-up clock, where a key is used to coil the spring by turning it clockwise, and inserting the key and turning counterclockwise would release the ratchet. The device would be attached to the inside of the sack so that the target couldn't get to it easily.

Here's my problem: we're playing by PFS rules, so I cannot craft anything custom. Does anyone know of a device similar to the spring-loaded reel that I described that already exists in Golarion that would be acceptable under PFS rules? I know the concept exists, because of the spring-loaded wrist sheath, I just need something that will spool string or twine or thin leather strips...

Thanks in advance!

You don't get coup de gras, but you do get sneak attack from being invisible or flanking. For coup de grace to happen the target has to be absolutely helpless. i.e. unconcious, tied up, pinned. or paralyzed. and doing so is a full round action.

Yeah, the sneak attack is why I liked the idea of pulling a bag over their head.

As a side note, how do you think the GM should rule such an attempt? Should it be some kind of combat maneuver? Is it a melee touch attack to get the back over the victim’s head? If the attacker and target are the same size, should height differences be ignored?

I’m sure this will come up when we play again in a couple weeks...

If your following PFS style rules, it would probably be ruled as not something you could really do since there isnt a mechanic for it in RAW. However the closest thing I can think of would be a dirty tick (blinded)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minous (Post 259846)

Dirty Trick (Blinded) works quite well, since they could pull the bag off; or it is held in place by a person and then it becomes grappling.

Thanks; now I know what to research. :)

(Yes, holding the bag in place is why I want a leather cinch strap on it that is spring-loaded to pull the strap tight and keep it that way. That goes back to my first post, looking for equipment ideas. Aaaaannnnnnd, we've come full circle. Cool! :D)

So the Dirty Trick(blind) option isn’t very... realistic. If I pull the bag over someone’s head, they can take it off as a standard action. Since it takes me a standard action to apply it, this isn’t helpful.

I would need an accomplice. Then I could pull the bag over their head and the accomplice (who had a readied action) could tie the cinch strap in a knot. Now the target is unlikely to get the bag off (try to undo a knot you can’t see when you’ve been unexpectedly blinded while in combat!).

Or maybe I pull the bag over their head, then pull on the cinch strap to tighten it but don’t let go...? They’d have a hard time trying to shake me loose as anytime they struggled, it would pull the cinch strap even tighter. Assuming they don’t shake me loose, I could tie the knot myself on the next round.

I’m thinking that because I’m invisible when I start this process, I don’t provoke an AOO with the dirty trick maneuver. And since they don’t get their Dex against invisible attackers, it shouldn’t be too tough to beat their CMD. I hope.

Do you think the above would pass in a PFS game?

In a PFS the best your going to get is dirty trick. Making it stick is meant to be difficult, if it was easy it would be horribly over powered. Blinding a character has some massive effects once you actually start breaking things down. Keep in mind that PFS is extremely RAW and unforgiving. A lot of these ideas might work in a home brew, but PFS the best you can get is dirty trick blinded.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azhrei (Post 259921)

You would need to make the CMB check to counter their natural reaction to avoid being bagheaded. No bonuses for invisibility in this case. because the bag and you are very visible at this point.