Raistlindantilus
Well-known member
Hear hear!
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Fishing for Rumors
- Thread starter Raistlindantilus
- Start date
Hear hear!
Raistlindantilus
Well-known member
Realm Works is still the best. I hope LWD resume at some point.
Not only is it the best campaign manager, IMO its the best product LWD has ever released.
As much as I rely on HLC I would rather see them drop development on literally anything and everything else before I would have wished to see RW development end.
PF2e and HLO and now CT seem to be largely a waste of time to me.
But what can you do....WOTC released D&D 5e, everyone started playing 5e like a bunch of simpletons, Paizo released 2e to compete and now everything is chaos, especially for the still very large core group of PF1e players using HLC.
The problem is PF2 isn't just a new edition of PF, learning the many lessons that should have been learned in the decade between, but essentially a new game. There are just too many new systems.PF2e and HLO and now CT seem to be largely a waste of time to me.
But what can you do....WOTC released D&D 5e, everyone started playing 5e like a bunch of simpletons, Paizo released 2e to compete and now everything is chaos, especially for the still very large core group of PF1e players using HLC.
People went to PF1 because 3.5 was a great system and 4 was awful. So PF2 being a simple evolution of PF1 woul;d have transitioned the whole player base over without an issue. But now there are PF1 players, PF2 players and 5e players all in the same space. That makes it hard not just for WotC and Paizo but everyone who supports the 3 systems.
I'm pretty confident PF2 will put an end to Paizo as a game developer. They'll survive as a publisher of AP's but I'd bet in 5 years they'll just make adventures for whatever edition of D&D is current then.
The problem is PF2 isn't just a new edition of PF, learning the many lessons that should have been learned in the decade between, but essentially a new game. There are just too many new systems.
People went to PF1 because 3.5 was a great system and 4 was awful. So PF2 being a simple evolution of PF1 woul;d have transitioned the whole player base over without an issue. But now there are PF1 players, PF2 players and 5e players all in the same space. That makes it hard not just for WotC and Paizo but everyone who supports the 3 systems.
I'm pretty confident PF2 will put an end to Paizo as a game developer. They'll survive as a publisher of AP's but I'd bet in 5 years they'll just make adventures for whatever edition of D&D is current then.
I agree totally.
PF2 isn't an update to the D20 SRD, so if people are going to change systems why wouldn't they switch to D&D5 which has a much bigger audience?
Raistlindantilus
Well-known member
The problem is PF2 isn't just a new edition of PF, learning the many lessons that should have been learned in the decade between, but essentially a new game. There are just too many new systems.
People went to PF1 because 3.5 was a great system and 4 was awful. So PF2 being a simple evolution of PF1 woul;d have transitioned the whole player base over without an issue. But now there are PF1 players, PF2 players and 5e players all in the same space. That makes it hard not just for WotC and Paizo but everyone who supports the 3 systems.
I'm pretty confident PF2 will put an end to Paizo as a game developer. They'll survive as a publisher of AP's but I'd bet in 5 years they'll just make adventures for whatever edition of D&D is current then.
Sadly if LWD continues to focus HLO to only PF2e and refuse to take on the monumental task of porting PF1e into HLO then LWD will die as well.
Paizo really screwed up the whole landscape with PF2e
Yeah... our group, and every player I personally know, are either playing just Pathfinder or that and 5e.
Based on the horrendous beta, no one has interest in even trying PF2.
The two features of Hero Lab Online that I'd like, are live links to characters so my VTT can read their current defenses or whatever, based on buffs and debuffs.
And to be able to do a group buff and hit seven players and three pets on one click, rather than having to enable an adjustment ten times, and then disable it another ten times.
Those two features, combined with Pathfinder and some select 3pp packages included (for us Spheres and Community Package for the Dreamscarred stuff), and I'd be happy to pay for the increased functionality.
Hopefully enough of the Pathfinder crowd would too, that they continue to enjoy our revenue stream now that Paizo has stopped releasing content for them to profit from providing it to us.
Based on the horrendous beta, no one has interest in even trying PF2.
The two features of Hero Lab Online that I'd like, are live links to characters so my VTT can read their current defenses or whatever, based on buffs and debuffs.
And to be able to do a group buff and hit seven players and three pets on one click, rather than having to enable an adjustment ten times, and then disable it another ten times.
Those two features, combined with Pathfinder and some select 3pp packages included (for us Spheres and Community Package for the Dreamscarred stuff), and I'd be happy to pay for the increased functionality.
Hopefully enough of the Pathfinder crowd would too, that they continue to enjoy our revenue stream now that Paizo has stopped releasing content for them to profit from providing it to us.
Raistlindantilus
Well-known member
I think HLO and CT has some promise but I just can't get interested without support for PF1e.....sad stuff, man
Sadly if LWD continues to focus HLO to only PF2e and refuse to take on the monumental task of porting PF1e into HLO then LWD will die as well.
Paizo really screwed up the whole landscape with PF2e
The last I checked HLO is not focused on just PF2E it also has Starfinder and Shadowrun.
HLO for PF1 will make LWD no money, I already own most of PF1 for HLC. Unless you are willing to pay for a monthly PF1 only fee. I would, but it would probably be a hard sell to some of my group.
The minimal server fees won't cover LWD wages, and I would already be paying those for Starfinder
What was so frustrating, just like 4e, is they just would not listen to the players saying how they didn't like it. Even back during the PF2 previews there were lots of people raising concerns that were just blown off. I lost pretty much all respect for Paizo then.Yeah... our group, and every player I personally know, are either playing just Pathfinder or that and 5e.
Based on the horrendous beta, no one has interest in even trying PF2.
Raistlindantilus
Well-known member
The last I checked HLO is not focused on just PF2E it also has Starfinder and Shadowrun.
HLO for PF1 will make LWD no money, I already own most of PF1 for HLC. Unless you are willing to pay for a monthly PF1 only fee. I would, but it would probably be a hard sell to some of my group.
The minimal server fees won't cover LWD wages, and I would already be paying those for Starfinder
Yeah I mean in terms of Pathfinder it ONLY supports PF2e, which is basically as good as nothing as far as most people I know are concerned.
Raistlindantilus
Well-known member
What was so frustrating, just like 4e, is they just would not listen to the players saying how they didn't like it. Even back during the PF2 previews there were lots of people raising concerns that were just blown off. I lost pretty much all respect for Paizo then.
I was doing some web searching today trying to see if Paizo is slowing down or losing confidence in PF2e but it doesn't seem they are, not yet at least.
We could be seeing a a PF3e or PF1.5 in the near future if PF2e fails to get adopted as I'm pretty sure is going to happen.
I was doing some web searching today trying to see if Paizo is slowing down or losing confidence in PF2e but it doesn't seem they are, not yet at least.
We could be seeing a a PF3e or PF1.5 in the near future if PF2e fails to get adopted as I'm pretty sure is going to happen.
If PF2 dies and PF3 is release, I fear for LWD's future. I think PF2 threw a huge wrench in the works, supporting it and the playtest. Not sure if they could handle another wrench.
I am an admitted module queen, and I use RW for those modules. Since LWD no longer supports it, I'm stuck with what they left behind with no improvements down the road. But, it's still an excellent tool for homebrews as well as module queens like me. It beats having multiple pieces of paper with notes scribbled out.
As for subscription-based programs, forget it. I don't have a lot of money to throw away on subscriptions, and I'm not always at a location where I have internet. I want to load the program on my computer and use it wherever I am whether I have internet access or not.
As for subscription-based programs, forget it. I don't have a lot of money to throw away on subscriptions, and I'm not always at a location where I have internet. I want to load the program on my computer and use it wherever I am whether I have internet access or not.
If PF2 dies and PF3 is release, I fear for LWD's future. I think PF2 threw a huge wrench in the works, supporting it and the playtest. Not sure if they could handle another wrench.
From what I've seen and heard in gaming stores near me, PF2 definitely isn't struggling here. It seems a lot of groups have already made the switch, particularly those with GMs or players who are also PF Society members. I've tried it and have mixed feelings, there are things I like and things I don't. The one PF game I'm in is staying with PF1 for now but everyone is interested in giving PF2 a try sometime. The same group resisted moving from D&D 3.5 to PF1 until they gave it a try.
I'm sure there are areas where PFS is thriving but it has been all but wiped out here. DDAL can get 6 to 8 tables versus 1 or 2 for PFS, and that may be down some more since PFS2 started.From what I've seen and heard in gaming stores near me, PF2 definitely isn't struggling here. It seems a lot of groups have already made the switch, particularly those with GMs or players who are also PF Society members. I've tried it and have mixed feelings, there are things I like and things I don't. The one PF game I'm in is staying with PF1 for now but everyone is interested in giving PF2 a try sometime. The same group resisted moving from D&D 3.5 to PF1 until they gave it a try.
I know PFS has been driving sales for Paizo but, IMO, it has been poisonous for tabletop role playing. It has put the idea into many player's heads that the goal is to break the game and that access to almost everything ever published should be available in a campaign. I've had probably 20 PFS players come through my home game in the last 4 years (we've been trying to get a 6th player for some time) and all have been unhappy with the limits on player options I have as well as my absolute ban on attempts to over power the other players.
Maidhc O Casain
Well-known member
For me it's a matter of "it's gotta stop somewhere." I honestly have no idea whether or not I'd like PF2. I'm not going to find out. I spent a TON of money on D&D, then on AD&D, then on 3 and 3.5. When PF1 came out I waited, then bought in with the self-imposed caveat that this would be the last d20 game I'd invest in. And now I've got all of the HLC content for PF1.
And I like it. Complications and flaws and all, I like it. And at my age, there's more than enough material already published to last the rest of my natural life.
Add the multi-genre systems - Savage Worlds, HERO, FATE - to the mix, and I'm set for life. I'll not spend another dime on new game systems.
I like what I've seen of HLO and Campaign Theater, and if LW would incorporate any of the systems I play into HLO (which I guess would be PF1, SW or FATE, as HERO System has it's own character generator) I'd happily lay out $$ for that service. But as is? They're not selling anything I want to spend my money on right now.
And I like it. Complications and flaws and all, I like it. And at my age, there's more than enough material already published to last the rest of my natural life.
Add the multi-genre systems - Savage Worlds, HERO, FATE - to the mix, and I'm set for life. I'll not spend another dime on new game systems.
I like what I've seen of HLO and Campaign Theater, and if LW would incorporate any of the systems I play into HLO (which I guess would be PF1, SW or FATE, as HERO System has it's own character generator) I'd happily lay out $$ for that service. But as is? They're not selling anything I want to spend my money on right now.
For me it's a matter of "it's gotta stop somewhere." I honestly have no idea whether or not I'd like PF2. I'm not going to find out. I spent a TON of money on D&D, then on AD&D, then on 3 and 3.5. When PF1 came out I waited, then bought in with the self-imposed caveat that this would be the last d20 game I'd invest in. And now I've got all of the HLC content for PF1.
I've gone through the same. I think the games companies like to reinvent every ~5-10 years so that they can sell a full set of books yet again. For those that have been around since first D&D it just gets repetitive.
The worst thing about PF(1) is that I've been buying PDFs rather than physical books, so the true scale of how many books I own is hidden - rather than being visible on bookshelves.
I know PFS has been driving sales for Paizo but, IMO, it has been poisonous for tabletop role playing. It has put the idea into many player's heads that the goal is to break the game and that access to almost everything ever published should be available in a campaign.
I agree 100%. I've tried PFS and a couple other living campaigns but haven't joined any of them and don't intend to. I like the concept of having a consistent and "portable" character for convention play but I've run into players who are way overpowered for their level because the GM was too liberal with rewards, the GM is their best friend, etc. PFS also tends to spawn rules lawyers...
I've gone through the same. I think the games companies like to reinvent every ~5-10 years so that they can sell a full set of books yet again. For those that have been around since first D&D it just gets repetitive.
The worst thing about PF(1) is that I've been buying PDFs rather than physical books, so the true scale of how many books I own is hidden - rather than being visible on bookshelves.
I suspect the occasional reboots are necessary for revenue, though. First of all, not everyone is going to use supplemental books and modules, so there's some segment of the population whose sales are more or less lost forever after the first sale. That one is, in part, one of the reasons most systems on HLC get only sporadic updates since it's not really driving new sales. Secondly, and this is not something I have any data to support, people seem more likely to pirate or secondhand supplemental items compared to the core book, where they like having a physical copy to pass around to the players. Lastly, the profit margin often isn't there. A single module requires a lot of work, artwork, etc, and then retails for a few dollars. The core book costs more to produce, but will likely sell more copies.