Can Realmworks use an External viewer?

[cyberqat]

Realmworks image viewer is pretty limited. I already have programs oin my computer such as my web browser that can view images in much greater detail/size.

Can i configure RW to call one of these to display images?

 

[daplunk]

I would challenge that there is no need for huge size / detail in Realm Works. It's not a VTT tool and IMO should not be used as one. I've never come across an image I need to be more than 3000x3000 pixels.

What are you doing that needs more than this?

 

[cyberqat]

Mapping my world progressively from World, to continent, to sub continent.

RW really cant handle the resolution necessary to read the labels at the sub continent level...

It auight to be childsplay to enaqble a call out to an external viewer. This is sort of external tool support has been derigeur in integrated environments for some time.

As is what youa re telling me is that I should really just give up on RW and go buy Fantasy Grounds or something like that...

 

[daplunk]

Sounds like a great project.

Have you considered cutting your maps up. That's how we generally do it.

This is Anna Meyer's world and a great example of how cutting it up can make it more manageable. Just link the pin to a topic that contains a more detailed map of that section.

I'm sure you could find a way to do the call. But in my experience I've had to host the files externally to Realm Works and then have Realm Works call them in a foreign application.

Realm Works is not the same as Fantasy Grounds. They are designed for different purposes. Personally I still use MapTools for example to show the players the maps on the table. If you objective is to just show the maps to the players I would recommend a VTT. Realm Works is better suited for documenting and mapping that world out in a way that makes it usable to you.

Personally I believe both applications have their place and purpose, in the way i run my games at least. All come's down to what you are trying to achieve.

 

[cyberqat]

Thanks thats helpful.

I dont suppose there is any way to share data btw RW and a VTT?

 

[daplunk]

Not natively - there's been talk over the years of Realm Works implementing an API but no traction on that.

If you have coding experience you might be able to do something with the export files but that I have zero experience with.

People have exported to HTML though.

I just keep two copies of my maps. Realm Works for organizing everything. The VTT has just a copy of the maps. Works a treat for me.

 

[cyberqat]

Well Im trying MapTool and Im liking it a lot for my project.

Biggest issues I see right now are documentation... but ocne I get over the learnign curve I suspect it will work very well.

I DO really hate video tutorials as primary documentation. I dunno why theya re so dman popular. (Thats really a BoT issue, not MapTools which has a decent wiki.)

 

[daplunk]

I only use MapTool to display the map and control the fog so can't help you beyond that I'm afraid. I still do everything else in Realm Works.

As the guy who makes most of the RW videos I'm in full support of their popularity

 

[kbs666]

This is one of RW's biggest failings. 3k pixel square maps look terrible on a 4k resolution monitor. The problem is that RW is a 32 bit application and simply cannot handle the memory and resources required for modern image sizes. With 1080p quickly coming to an end this may kill RW as a viable program if they do not upgrade it to 64 bit.

 

[Farling]

This is one of RW's biggest failings. 3k pixel square maps look terrible on a 4k resolution monitor. The problem is that RW is a 32 bit application and simply cannot handle the memory and resources required for modern image sizes. With 1080p quickly coming to an end this may kill RW as a viable program if they do not upgrade it to 64 bit.

I think I might have a monitor that is marketed as a 4K monitor, however its resolution is actually only 2560x1440. I don't have too much of a problem with the 3K picture limit.

I wouldn't say that 1080p is quickly coming to an end. Only "power users" are going for 4K. Here in the UK there isn't much 4K content available on TV channels.

 

[kbs666]

I just set my monitor to 1440p and there is no real issue at 1440p. But at 4k the images have to be either unacceptably tiny or extremely blurry. So if 1440 is where most consumers go it may not be too bad but 4k is where a lot of folks who do video content creation and a lot of gamers are going. Ultimately though I doubt people will see 1440p as worth an upgrade when the price difference between 1440p and 4k is relatively small.


On Newegg right now for monitors of similar sizes 4k and 1440p from name brands 4k is about $100 more expensive. I think ultimately that difference will shrink as more 4k panels are built. if the difference is less than $50 how many 1440p monitors will be sold?

 

[Dark Lord Galen]

Sounds like a great project.

Have you considered cutting your maps up. That's how we generally do it.

This is Anna Meyer's world and a great example of how cutting it up can make it more manageable. Just link the pin to a topic that contains a more detailed map of that section.
..........

Well, Not speaking for all of the "we", but as a personal friend of Anna's I can say She did this method of her Greyhawk map BECAUSE of the Limits of Realmworks, NOT because of "how we generally do it". Having assisted her on the mapping project even before it came to RW (I aided in the tracking of changes in each update), she and I have had many discussions around the 32bit limitations KBS666 mentions below and how it limits where the tools such as good mapping are going. It was a concern when RW first came out, and was even discussed upto last year at GENCON 50.
I agree with others that RW is not intended to be a VTT, but this method isn't trying to use it as such.

This is one of RW's biggest failings. 3k pixel square maps look terrible on a 4k resolution monitor. The problem is that RW is a 32 bit application and simply cannot handle the memory and resources required for modern image sizes. With 1080p quickly coming to an end this may kill RW as a viable program if they do not upgrade it to 64 bit.

I would also pass along, to any that don't follow Anna's progression of the GH world, that this example is several years old. She is currently in the process of updating the detail of the map even more. Which will expose RW shortcomings for displaying evenmore by default.

See Here>http://ghmaps.net/
And even more importantly here > https://www.patreon.com/annabmeyer
On her Patreon link she has progressed passed "Zoomify" due to limitations at displaying online and has moved toward using "Easy Zoom" located here >https://easyzoom.com/image/122424
All I can say is RW / LW better get on board the 64bit train or get left at the station.
But this is a systemic part of a bigger problem that LW struggles to understand what a immersive sandbox campaign actually needs..... Tools to manage exactly this, time lines, calendars, and story plots.... but eh.. I'm not saying anything new there...
DLG

 

[kbs666]

This has been part of my discontent with their whole no progress, at all, until the CM launches stance.

First how much of this will have to be redone when they inevitably have to convert to 64 bit?

Second what happens if sales in the CM are lackluster, which I predict they will be. I strongly doubt based on what I know of the material they have announced and the companies they are working with that there will be all that much interest.

Third the present users, which based on forum traffic and other metrics is a shrinking number, have long standing feature wants that have gone unaddressed for years. What assurance do we have that we will ever get the QoL stuff we need to ever get the things to really make RW the tool we need and were promised?

Finally Rob et al can say all they want that RW is not a VTT but the fact is that the moment they added granular reveal to maps they crossed a line. And the major VTT's are certainly moving into campaign and character management spaces as well. RW needs to either partner up with a VTT so we can seamless switch between the two or add VTT style tactical features to their smart maps.

 

[Bidmaron]

Most of the 4K content is bogus. Just upscaled from 720p or 720i even. If you look at the data rates required to stream even 1080p pure video at 24fps, you cannot even come close at gigabit Ethernet rates. Codecs compress video, and do fairly well but they rely upon the human eye and brain to fill in detail. If you do the math, 1080p 24 bit color uncompressed at 24 FPS is 1.19 gigabits per second. Max theoretical rate for gigabit Ethernet is 1 gigabit per second, hence the name. No internet pipe in the world can push data anywhere close to that rate. If you take Cox cable as one of the faster examples of premium internet at consumer levels, independent sites say at their fastest rates you will on average see 40MB / sec max sustained rates. So you can only expect less than 1/100th the rate you need for pure video.
There is even a worse metric. If you were to stream at that rate, you would top out your monthly data cap of 1 TB after only seven hours. This is less than three movies.
Oh and if you are the one pushing the data to your players, you can only expect a maximum of 1/10th the download rate.
So, what this all means is that you are getting very compressed video. And those rates I gave assumed that the only data was video. No audio at all.

 

[DaFranker]

Heya @Bidmaron. I understand that your argument is about the general adoption rate of the public.

All of this is theoretically valid as said, and is similar to advice I would give a prospective TV buyer, but is not particularly relevant to RealmWorks users, and does not map proportionally onto the subset of the population that would buy or does buy LW products.

As such, it's not clear what your point is exactly in relation to the topic of discussion in this thread and you give the impression of going on a belligerent rant, as if you were telling existing RW users who already have 4K technology that they should give it up and stop, and switch to a 1080p TV instead. I don't believe this is what you were trying to say... care to clarify?

 

[Dark Lord Galen]

This has been part of my discontent with their whole no progress, at all, until the CM launches stance.

yep

First how much of this will have to be redone when they inevitably have to convert to 64 bit?

Hopefully very little, but share the same concerns

Second what happens if sales in the CM are lackluster, which I predict they will be.......

Partnerships aside, there would be a spike in revenue, even if only briefly.. some $ vs little to none currently based on new "shiney" impulse buys versus those duped into the initial purchase that continue to wait for unfulfilled promises. But the surge wont be maintainable without real measurable growth in other areas already lacking.

Third the present users, which based on forum traffic and other metrics is a shrinking number, have long standing feature wants that have gone unaddressed for years. What assurance do we have that we will ever get the QoL stuff we need to ever get the things to really make RW the tool we need and were promised?

Nothing I can add to what has not already been said in GREAT volume in other threads/posts.

Finally Rob et al can say all they want that RW is not a VTT but the fact is that the moment they added granular reveal to maps they crossed a line. And the major VTT's are certainly moving into campaign and character management spaces as well.

emmm torn on this.. crossed? donno.. severely bent trying to appease the masses yea lol.... For me there is never a one thing fits all solution for anything. even the gathering of similar items for functionality run into unforeseen problems that separate entities would not have... Microsoft ran into this years ago when combining wordprocessing, database building, graphic display, spreadsheet making, and such from the competition of Wordperfect / DbaseIII/ HarvardGraphics/Lotus123 in the day. And they were a (and are) a substantially larger company than LWD.

I am content, and personally think it would be in LWD benefit from a business standpoint, that they leave the things others are good at to others... LWD struggles enough as it is without reinventing things that already exist, spell checking, mapmaking, etc.

Give me things I CAN NOT get from those other programs... Custom fantasy calendars based on my world design, Character level reveal of information, An easy way to import my already formatted information, and print or PDF to my players without the community having to bail you out for an obvious feature oversight, integration real time with LW products, etc.

RW needs to either partner up with a VTT so we can seamless switch between the two or add VTT style tactical features to their smart maps.

I once had hope that the partnership was on the horizon with the ability to export to things like Fantasy Grounds, D20Pro via herolab, but like all other things not Content Market.. it has withered on the vine...

DLG

 

[Valyar]

This "partnership" is so hard to establish... I already lost hope that any of the systems I am interested in will be available as commercial products in Fantasy Grounds. I have even less hopes for RW.

 

[Bidmaron]

Heya @Bidmaron... care to clarify?

sorry. I was reacting to the assertion that 1080p was dead. I am not saying that 4K isn’t a good display just that the notion that you are getting more video resolution is a marketing hoax because any streamed content is highly compressed data.

You are very correct that this has little to do with RW.

 

[kbs666]

Most of the 4K content is bogus. Just upscaled from 720p or 720i even. If you look at the data rates required to stream even 1080p pure video at 24fps, you cannot even come close at gigabit Ethernet rates. Codecs compress video, and do fairly well but they rely upon the human eye and brain to fill in detail. If you do the math, 1080p 24 bit color uncompressed at 24 FPS is 1.19 gigabits per second. Max theoretical rate for gigabit Ethernet is 1 gigabit per second, hence the name. No internet pipe in the world can push data anywhere close to that rate. If you take Cox cable as one of the faster examples of premium internet at consumer levels, independent sites say at their fastest rates you will on average see 40MB / sec max sustained rates. So you can only expect less than 1/100th the rate you need for pure video.
There is even a worse metric. If you were to stream at that rate, you would top out your monthly data cap of 1 TB after only seven hours. This is less than three movies.
Oh and if you are the one pushing the data to your players, you can only expect a maximum of 1/10th the download rate.
So, what this all means is that you are getting very compressed video. And those rates I gave assumed that the only data was video. No audio at all.

LOL

Gross misunderstanding of data transmission rates and how video codecs work detected.

First there are lossless and near lossless compression codecs out there. Both Netflix and YouTube have been using them for years. The decompression happens at your computer. The stream is always compressed during transmission. The ethernet connection is never trying to pass the uncompressed stream. I have never seen my ethernet connection saturated just by streaming a 4k stream. and it most certainly is not an upsampled 720p video. In many cases it is a downsampled 8k source, since that is what the Red Weapons native resolution is and that is the camera of choice of most cameramen shooting for 4k.

Second I get 45MB/second DL/rate sustained, 360Mbit/s) and have no data cap. I routinely transfer over 1TB of data down and up just for work in one day.

 

[Farling]

Give me things I CAN NOT get from those other programs... Custom fantasy calendars based on my world design, Character level reveal of information, An easy way to import my already formatted information, and print or PDF to my players without the community having to bail you out for an obvious feature oversight, integration real time with LW products, etc.

I don't think LWD will ever implement printing because it will be too easy to violate the copyright of a purchased product.

They provide a method to import information, but your "already formatted information" sounds like it isn't in a format that they support. It would be difficult to support many different formats when trying to pick from within each particular format which elements should be placed into which category type and which snippets within that type.