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Time, Timelines and Past Events

A

AEIOU

Well-known member
Calendars are still coming.... In the meantime, how are folks dealing with time, timelines and past events? I've avoided this whole topic while I wait patiently for calendars to magically appear, but I'm starting to pull dates together and would like to know what others are doing (or planning to do once calendars arrive).

• What categories are you using for these things into?
• Are you tying dates to the Gregorian calendar?
• How do you reveal timeline info to players?
• How do you record historical events?
• How do you flesh out and present backstory for your players?
 
I'm a complete beginner here, but what I've done so far is to create a simple list under 'Sources' with a short list of what the characters have achieved so far in the campaign, including the date on which they achieved it in game time.

I've included in that date order for my Roman game (I'm using AD&D 2e) both a game date (e.g. AD71) and a 'Imp. Ceasar Vespasianus Augustus (3rd consulship) and Marcus Cocceius Nerva' which is what the characters should call it when in the game.

I wouldn't expect a support mechanism like RW to cope with a setup like 'in the year of the consuls X and Y' because that's just weird.

I am tying dates to the Gregorian calendar, which is fairly straightforward for my game, though it took me some time to work out how to get to BCE - which I need as I have NPCs and places who were born (or created) BCE.

If I need the players to see timeline info. I reveal the info in the same way as I do anything else. They can, for example, see the list of what they've done so far, including some of the handouts they were given.

The only real historical event I've had to record so far is information concerning a historical NPC and there was so much of it I ended up creating an entry for him under 'people' and recording a date of death.
 
I use RW as a database of information for mostly myself. I have not used it at the table. So it is a repository of data I sue to create new adventures and mostly keep track of all the NPCs.

• What categories are you using for these things into?
I input the events per year. So I create a Time period topic for a specific year and use incident and battle topics for all the major events.
Events that are specific to one (N)PC I put in snippets (mostly calendar snippets) under the section History
• Are you tying dates to the Gregorian calendar?
Yes. although I have been fortunate that I am a beta tester so I have a special calendar still for it. I only track the season and the year.

• How do you reveal timeline info to players?
Since it holds all known events I reveal them all. It can be that there are still some secrets not yet revealed, they will be snippets within the topics. If there is an event the characters are unaware of then it is not revealed, but this has not happened yet.

• How do you record historical events?
Battle topic: for all the battles that happened.
Incident topic: for all other events. I use the suffix option to indicate which season the events happened.

• How do you flesh out and present backstory for your players?
Backstory of a character I place under the history section of the character topic.
If the backstory ties in with a major event then I will place some information in the character topic, but mostly will be linking with the incident or battle topic where the event is described. I use snippets in that section to write how the character ties into the event.

Example:
Knight A dies glorious in Battle B.
In the character entry of Knight A I will place a snippet revealing that he died heroically in battle B. And linking it with battle B.
In the battle entry I will reveal what Knight A did that he died heroically.
 
Currently, I'm only entering current and future dates. I have a spreadsheet in Google Docs where I have dates for the next couple years in a number of custom formats as well as Gregorian. So, for example, the very first date on my spreadsheet is:

GAME SESSION: 1
MAJOR GAME EVENTS: Party arrives in Heavans Ring
GREGORIAN: Monday, April 13, 2015
ME DATE: Mandagr, Einmánuður 31, 401
ME DATE (common): Monday, Winterend 31, 401
HUA-OGUZ: Threeday, Fourthmonth 13, 401
etc.

Note that I tied it to Gregorian. That allows me to add the "in-game" dates in the session log in RW.
Also, I'll paste in dates in the several calendar formats in my user notes.

Also, I add date or date-range snippets to quests and storylines so that the time line also acts as a log of what the party has done. This is really its main value to me, though I still have to cross-reference these dates with my spreadsheet to determine the custom-calendar date. Because of this, I find that I reference my spreadsheet more often than the timeline view in RW. I'm mostly adding date snippets in the anticipation of there eventually being custom-calendar support in RW.

What I don't do is enter any past events or historical dates into RW because I had created my historical timelines using one of my custom calendars. I'm too lazy to figure out the calendrical calculations to convert dates for hundreds or thousands of years ago into Gregorian, which is what I would need to do in order for me to enter them in RealmWorks.

I suppose I could just change everything to Gregorian, but that loses a lot of the flavor of the game and I would have to go and rewrite the Gregorian dates into all my existing materials and handouts.
 
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AEIOU said:
Calendars are still coming.... In the meantime, how are folks dealing with time, timelines and past events? I've avoided this whole topic while I wait patiently for calendars to magically appear, but I'm starting to pull dates together and would like to know what others are doing (or planning to do once calendars arrive).

• What categories are you using for these things into?
• Are you tying dates to the Gregorian calendar?
• How do you reveal timeline info to players?
• How do you record historical events?
• How do you flesh out and present backstory for your players?
Click to expand...

Without toooo much of a cynical rant on the lack of forward motion (after more than a year) on the calendars promised, As most are aware, RW (unless Gregorian is your preferred calendar system) is still currently MIA....
I continue to utilize an excel spreadsheet that allows me to track the calendar (five actually) events and would respond thusly:
  1. • What categories are you using for these things into?
    [*]• Are you tying dates to the Gregorian calendar?
    [*]• How do you reveal timeline info to players?
    [*]• How do you record historical events?
    [*]• How do you flesh out and present backstory for your players?
1>not certain on this question, so will make a guess, My categories are
  • separated by:
  • Calendar Type by Race
  • Calendar Date again by race so I can cross reference dates as they relate to differing cultures
  • Season
  • Month
  • Day
  • Phase of Primary Moon
  • Phase of Secondary Moon
  • Holidays
  • Events of Note
  • Characters Involved
2> the only connection to my game calendars utilizing Gregorian is actual game date played.

3> for a time line *(for the PCS) I sort out based on characters involved column that populates a timeline graph from a pivot table.

**This is a subset of the overall time line for the campaign (which is extensive) utilizing both canon events that I accept ( I utilize World of Greyhawk 90%) and the results of previous "generations" interactions of those events to the current "time line" (if that clarifies, Thanks Vargr for post, yours causes me to clarify my own). I leave it to my players (as Vargr suggests) to discover and determine related history and how that defines the world they live in. Granted, I give certain PC types a tactical advantage (Scribes, Bards, Loremasters, etc) since this is a "primary weapon" for them (ie information brokers). This is reflected in various subset skills and feats incorporated into our campaign with the expertise for these skills / feats monitored via Herolab specials. (Thanks to Aaron, Colen, ShadowChemosh, and many others for their wisdom and guidance there).**

4> Historical events are recorded based on origin time line and transposed to other racial timelines if relevant to that race. For example, The migration of one race into an area would be considered the "origin race" and the races that occupied that region would take note of when the arrival was based on their own calendar systems.

5> the last one "fleshing out" varies according to player. Some of my players preferred (or are lazy lol) to discover their past as things play out. So they have had a loss of memory or simply have ran away from their past and don't openly discuss it. While others have provided me with ideas of the past of the PC and I have weaved those details (and new subplots) into the back history so they may integrate into the present. Neither is a "wrong way" but the DM actions are not set to one sort of application do to the variety of PC approaches.

However, I do maintain ALL PC and NPCs back history in our campaign to build back history from. Since I started playing in 1979 that is ALOT of PC and NPC histories to select from that other past players have created then that adds to the back history of my new players. In our campaign we call these histories the Generations. One Example would be a PC from the 1st generation that was played and died (the player joined the service was not available to play any longer and is currently one of the most decorated heroes in our services (BIG Salute and THANK YOU for defending our great nation Paul Fiesel)). His 1st generation legacy at a battle became the back history to a PC in our 3rd generation, his Paladin of Mayaheine daughter who grew to fill her father's shoes.

Bobifle said:
I dont record time info in RW at all.

Currently it's broken and brings no benefit.
Click to expand...
Ditto, and we continue to wait more than a year later for the "magic" promised.....
 
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• What categories are you using for these things into?

Well, I have my timeline in a document outside of RW.

My timeline is based on Anno Imperium Inceptum since the party is living at that time and in that empire.

• Are you tying dates to the Gregorian calendar?

No.
Besides, I can not figure out how to insert dates in the build-in date system.

• How do you reveal timeline info to players?

Well, they are given dates (more often years) and what took place and then they have to keep track of it themselves, sort it out and decipher it.

• How do you record historical events?

Not sure what you mean, but I have a timeline in a document outside of RW and write dates in snippets were relevant inside of RW. Often in relation to individuals (birth and when know also death) and for buildings/places/etc when they were built or ceased to exist.

For religious dates I place them in a container (Sacred Days) under the religion they belong to.

I have different timelines for the different major cultures in the world.

• How do you flesh out and present backstory for your players?

If you by backstory mean the PCs' then they will discover from time to time that their specific background gives them some insight into whatever they are dealing with.

If you by backstory mean the world's backstory/background, then that is an important and integral part of the major plotlines.


I hope I got somewhat close to answering your questions.
 
Thank you all for the great responses.

More information for folks to ponder:
I have about 20 pages of detailed history that describes what happened in a region over the last 10,000 years. This is backstory to the current state of affairs. It gives context to how towns/keeps became ruins, how places became haunted, what transpired to create places of magic, what the gods did to influence people, etc. Much of this would not be known by players but I really need to keep track of it so I can keep my stories straight. Much of it is really seed information for future gaming but not in the same sense as a plotline for an adventure path or dungeon crawl. I also have a timeline for the same period that puts it all in simple table.

None of the existing categories really seems to fit game history and backstory neatly. It could go under Mechanics. It's too much to fit into the "home" category. I like @Cornelius' suggestion of Time Periods but so much of the material refers to other events it would be cumbersome to split it up arbitrarily by century or some other measurement of time.

This is one of the few square pegs I have left for categorization. Hence my putting off dealing with it for over a year.... :)
 
I am still trying to figure out how to integrate it into RW in the - for me - best way.

And maybe I have been stalling somewhat, waiting for the calendars :-)

This is what I have done so far:

In World Almanac under group Other I have a topic (Conecpt) called Calendars. Contained herein I have
Astronomical details (further information)
Short description of the length of the day, the number of days in one rotation of the planet around the Sun (or the Sun's rotation around the flat ground you live on, depending on your preferred view of the world), the moon(s), comets, meteor showers, the bi-centennial volcanic eruption from Mount Doom.
I believe that calendars would be based - at least in part - on such information and what people have been able to observe throughout time. This should provide some fundamental time-units that all calendars (with the possible exception of some esoteric ones) are based on.

Calendar Comparison (further information)
A brief comparison of the main calendars done in a table showing the similarities and differences between the various calendars. Good to get a quick idea that if culture A divides the year into 12 arbitrary bits (could be called "months") another culture would divide the year into four "seasons" or whatnot.

Calendars (further information)
The various calendars are then given a container each. Here I have listed where the calendar is used, the name(s) of the calendar, how it is organized (how many days in a year, how many days in subdivisions of a year (months), smaller divisions (weeks), names of years, months, weeks, days, hours, etc. Or however the calendar in question might be organized.



I have a post-fix for all dates (normally after the year) stating what calendar we are talking about. It could be 530 AII - which would be Anno Imperium Inceptum. I then add snippets where needed and write the date and whether it is a birth, death, founding, dissolvement, whatever.



For special, recurring days I place them where relevant.

So far it is under the group Groups, with a religion The Church as container (being the only one allowed and the only one known by most people does have the benefit that you do not have to be terrible inventive with the name you are going to give yourself (well, it does have a more explicit name as well)).

I have made a container (Other list) called Sacred days and made a topic (Event list) for each sacred day, describing it in terms of its placement in the calendar, the theological significance of that day, what the common man knows about it and how it is celebrated.

I put a prefix in front of the sacred days, so they appear in the order they should when playing through the year (or whatever time division the culture uses).


I haven't gotten so far getting all my loose ideas regarding calendars, days and religions into RW (where they take on a more definite form and become canon), but even without the calendar module RW has made it so much easier for me to organize these things and get it done.


Post scriptum:
I really really look forward to the calendar module... ;)
 
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Vargr said:
And maybe I have been stalling somewhat, waiting for the calendars :-)
Click to expand...

I'm absolutely stalling. All my historical time-line stuff is keep outside of Realmworks for now. I just don't want to go through the work of trying to fit square pegs into round holes only to find that I need to do it all again once calendars are eventually released.
 
MNBlockHead said:
I'm absolutely stalling. All my historical time-line stuff is keep outside of Realmworks for now. I just don't want to go through the work of trying to fit square pegs into round holes only to find that I need to do it all again once calendars are eventually released.
Click to expand...

Could not have put it better... I have a genuine hatred for double or repeat work. Especially if I can avoid it to begin with.:(
 
I've put a few dates in: while my campaign is officially set in the Forgotten Realms (and thus I'm waiting for the calendar of Harptos), I've done some crossover stuff to early 21st century Earth, so I have a date match-up I can use.

I've been quiet lately, but I'm still desperately anticipating calendars.
 
It's good to see that I didn't miss something totally obvious. Lots of great ideas for how to adapt. I'm going to put this on the back burner and hurry up and wait again. If I move forward now, I know I'll have to make major changes later and without the ability to export, restructure in Word/Excel and re-import/paste to correct categories, that'll be mucho painful.

As many of us can affirm, it's amazingly frustrating to not be able to build backstory effectively in RealmWorks. Especially because roleplaying is absolutely tied to the history of a campaign.

Keep plugging away Rob and team!
 
MNBlockHead said:
I'm absolutely stalling. All my historical time-line stuff is keep outside of Realmworks for now. I just don't want to go through the work of trying to fit square pegs into round holes only to find that I need to do it all again once calendars are eventually released.
Click to expand...

Sad to say, I'm sort of in this boat as well, as I pigeonholed myself with a custom calender. I've really enjoyed RW from the outset, but I don't think I've even opened it in the past two weeks, as the vast majority of what I have left to do requires me to craft and cross-reference a lot of the world's history. And while I've looked into Aeon Timeline, I'm really doubting I can handle everything in the trial period-- and even though it's not a prohibitive cost, we're simple not in a financial position to buy a lot more ancillary programs to handle bits and pieces.

So for now, I've been mucking around with Campaign Cartographer, building up more maps of towns and cities and dungeons that I hope to eventually link in to with RW... but I'm sort of at an impasse at expanding beyond what I've already entered.
 
ArgoForg said:
Sad to say, I'm sort of in this boat as well, as I pigeonholed myself with a custom calender. I've really enjoyed RW from the outset, but I don't think I've even opened it in the past two weeks, as the vast majority of what I have left to do requires me to craft and cross-reference a lot of the world's history. And while I've looked into Aeon Timeline, I'm really doubting I can handle everything in the trial period-- and even though it's not a prohibitive cost, we're simple not in a financial position to buy a lot more ancillary programs to handle bits and pieces.

So for now, I've been mucking around with Campaign Cartographer, building up more maps of towns and cities and dungeons that I hope to eventually link in to with RW... but I'm sort of at an impasse at expanding beyond what I've already entered.
Click to expand...

Same boat as you guys. I put an AP on hiatus until we get calendar support. My group is doing a lot of time sensitive crafting and we're using Kingdom building rules that need date recording. Maybe we'll go back to it if calendars ever come out.
 
@Argoforge, I also looked into Aeon Timeline and didn't find that it met my needs. Really, what would be most helpful is a simple script that will allow me to enter a date in one of my custom calendars and have it convert it to all of the others as well as Gregorian.

I'm using RW heavily and am enjoying building my world in it and running my games from it. But I am also getting to the point where history is becoming increasingly important. What I'm probably going to do is just enter all the dates in Gregorian and just use vague phrases like "253 years ago..." rather than give specific historical dates. At least when custom calendars are supported, I should be able to set them up and then be able to have my dates converted/displayed in the custom format.

So I'm kinda in a weird place. I always put the current dates up using the custom calendars, both on a white board, on my campaign calendar (a Google Docs spreadsheet) and in my session summaries. But I'm recording all my historical dates in Gregorian, trying to avoid giving a specific custom-calendar dates for historic events.
 
For me the current calendar tool is 99% useless.
I only use it to record actual game date sessions and the highlight milestones. Significant events, etc that could be visited by players by game date w/o a lot of sorting.
But then that isn't particularly useful for details since players can't use the thier versions at the character level and character journals are a one way street.:(
So i have even abandoned that approach.
So in RW, time (and history) don't exist unless u live in a gregorian world.:mad:

So that concludes my calendar rant for the day......

This soap box provided by
<the coalition for custom calendars >,

a non-profit group of diversely patient RW users :cool:
 
As I've been using RW as more of a whole world database so far than a true game one (no PC's have yet been entered, for instance, and almost everything has been placed in the World Almanac rather than the Story Almanac or a Custom), I'm not even that lucky yet.

Sadly, the two things that would really help me move forward beyond where I am would be calendars and export capability. Don't get me wrong, I'm very happy to see everything moving forward-- content marketplace, sirynscape/3P add-on capability, player and web versions-- because it shows that the LWD team is working hard on this and not sitting on their laurels and letting it grow stagnant... but sadly, none of these things are really going to do anything for my personal work in RW, so I feel sort of resigned to just work with other bits of my world while I wait around on the sidelines. :(
 
Maybe the beta version could be opened up for interested parties, then you could use this unwieldy advanced calendar? :)
 
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