Best Practices Guide: Overall

[EightBitz]

I'm not sure where this request should go, so I'm posting it in the most general area. I think it would help a lot of people. And it can be a collaborative effort from the EA Kickstarters and the developers. It can be a PDF or a new forum topic.

I would like to see it cover things like:
-Using tags vs. using identifiers vs. using containers.

-Creating a realm that is a setting instead of a discrete adventure, and how to compose, manage and distinguish specific adventures within that realm (which I'm guessing would follow from or be intertwined with tags vs. identifiers vs. containers.)

-When should a large setting be broken up into different realms? If one is building a realm that spans multiple worlds and a timeline of a million years on each world (though they're all related to the same stream of continuity), how could that best be managed? Should it all be in one realm? One realm for each world? One realm for each historical era? One realm for each historical era on each world?

I know that the software is flexible, and we can do things however we want, and that's a great thing. But some over-all guidance on good practices would also be helpful (at least to me).

Thank you.

 

[MaxSupernova]

Amen.

 

[thedarkelf007]

Now this is very subjective. I can answer it multiple ways for the same set if data.

There is no definitive way of doing this unless you are incorporating other peoples content. Then you need to fit I'm with their structure.

Otherwise I would build the data around what makes sense for your world.

Containers are good for a hierarchy
Ids are good for sorting
Tags are good for filtering

Objects have single inheritance so it can't belong to more than one parent (multiple inheritance while cool is beyond the scope of this program) so it can have only one container.

Id's can go before or after the name. If before it can sort things like rooms at a location. Now having this as the only sort might become confusing. So I add them to which ever object holds the map they are referenced from.

Now tags can be added freely and everywhere. So important things like special events. World it city they are attached to. Sourcebook. Anything that you want to be able to filter by should be a tag. By using all three you will find your content easier to find.

Does this help at all?

 

[EightBitz]

That's a start, but saying that there's no definitive way doesn't really address the issue, and it isn't really the question.

There are the developers who had a methodology in mind when they designed the product. Their insights into good practices would be valuable without having to be definitive.

There are people who've had several months of experience in designing their realms. Their insights would also be valuable without having to be definitive.

And as a perfect example, I give you this:

http://forums.wolflair.com/showthread.php?t=48941

That's the sort of thing that would fit right in with a good practices guide.

 

[thedarkelf007]

There is no generic way really.

But approaches I take for the various realms I am working with are all different.

When I am using a module as the focus, I structure the content around the modules, and link in the locations then encounters then people as layered content owners.

i.e.

Module
- Location A
- Room A1
- Room A2
- Encounter
- NPC
- Monster
- Location B

When I am working with a character focus storyline, I start with the player characters and build out from there.

- Character
- NPCs
- Locations

And then encounters and events are built as they happen

- Event
- Encounters

I can do more later if this is what your looking for.

 

[monsterfurby]

I'd rather say there's no definitive way yet. I'm pretty sure that best practices will emerge, some conditional on how a campaign is laid out, some conditional on what style of running a game the user prefers, but in any case they will appear.

 

[EightBitz]

I'd rather say there's no definitive way yet. I'm pretty sure that best practices will emerge, some conditional on how a campaign is laid out, some conditional on what style of running a game the user prefers, but in any case they will appear.

I think if I'm in doubt about anything at this point, I'll just use tags. This way, at least, if I want to do something differently later, I can filter for content.

 

[MaxSupernova]

"There's no one way. Do what you like!"

I ran into this when I bought my son a set of drums.

We got the kit set up and I had to tune them. I went looking on the internet for how to tune drums. Everything just said "Everyone has their own way, just do it till it sounds good!"

As a non-drummer stating from scratch, this is useless advice. It took me a long time to find someone who was actually willing to give concrete "As a starting place set this drum to a "B" and then in fourths down from there". That was gold to a beginner who had no place to start, and no idea what "just do what sounds good" even sounds like.

 

[AEIOU]

IMNSHO, thedarkelf007 really nails it with "do it this way when I do this, that way when I do that". I ran into this with RotRL as each of the books is structured differently. And that is why it is such a good AP to enter into RW by hand. You have so many different things going on that it forces you to think about how to be consistent while also remaining flexible for different types of content.

I started with background material. Towns, landmarks, forests, mountains, roads.... Then I focused on major NPC's and how they inter-related with one another. I spent time on relationships because that's something that isn't obvious when reading a module. Then I started entering dungeons and adventures. At this point, the NPC's could be linked where appropriate and the trash mobs I just noted book and page number in case I want to look it up. Someday, that information will be available for download and I'll go back through to update links.

The absolute last thing I will do if I ever get bored is enter mechanics. I figure these will be coming from the various game publishers and probably for free. After all, they want us using their material so that we buy their adventures and add-ons.

Did I do things I regretted? Yes. I went down dead-end paths and found that I didn't like how I had structured things time and time again. That's ok for me. I learned a ton in the process and I'll keep developing my worlds this way.

At work I found that I think in rows/columns while my boss thinks in paragraphs. I find modules to be more of the paragraph approach. So I really appreciate RW as it gives me the opportunity to translate that material into a more useful format (for me). This is an important distinction to consider -- how do you organize material, how do you prep for a game, how do you think?

 

[enrious]

What I find interesting for me is that the way I structure Realms differs from how I envision presenting the data, which often changes based on the genre of the campaign.

For example, the Realm I've created for my Pathfinder campaigns is organized with a geographical hierarchy, so you have something like:

   Universe
       World
           Continent
                 Nation
                     City
                         District
                              Business
                                    People in the Business

Sure, I have some oddball places for things like Mercenary Companies or Bandits or the like, but basically the focus is on the geography. Characters are important, but we've generally remembered the death-trap dungeon, the bloody pirate seas, the Kingmaker land they built much moreso than the local butcher, baker, or candle-stick maker.



For my Supers campaign, I have two equal Containers, like so:

    People
         Groups
               Heroes
                    Hero Group
               Villains
               Government

          Individuals
               Heroes
                    Individual Hero
               Villains
               Supporting Cast (NPCs)

     Multiverse
           Universe
                 Planet
                       Nation
                             City
                                 District
                                      Point of Interest

I did it this way because for me (and I suspect my players), when I think of "comic book superheroes", it is the *characters* that are the stories, with the occasional location sprinkled in from time to time. Both are important elements, and I want to ensure that they are separate in look and thought.

I think when I flesh out my Star Trek, Firefly, Farscape, or Twilight 2000 Realms, I'll probably have much more of an even mix of locations and characters - after all, in something like Star Trek, the ship is a mixture of both.

 

[EightBitz]

I appreciate that you're all trying, but you're not quite hitting it. Maybe I didn't ask my question clearly. Let's try a bit of role playing to see if I can make it more clear what I'd like to see in a best practices guide.

-----

Hi, I'm Gene Roddenberry. I want to use RW to help me manage adventures in a universe I'm building. I'm coming here asking for some advice. I'm going to have different settings. The first series of adventures are going to be in the 23rd century. The second series of adventures are going to be in the 24th century.

This is going to be a universe populated by several different races, some of which will show up often, like two races I'm calling "Klingons" and "Romulans", and some races will show up once, like the "Gorn".

It's obvious enough to me that I can build worlds and races in the world almanac and that I can detail them in there. But do I put all this in one realm? The first series of adventures and the second series of adventures, even though they're a hundred years apart? What about building out from there? I have an idea for a series of adventures focused around a space station, and a series of adventures focused around a ship that gets trapped far from home. Do I put all this in one realm?

Also, I have some time travel episodes planned, some of which will take place on today's earth, and some of which will take place between the 23rd and 24th century. Some that might even go back to the 19th century. If I split things up into multiple realms, how would I manage that? The same races and the same planets still exist in the different time periods.

And finally, let's say I have a concept for a specific adventure in mind. What mechanism would I define that specific adventure and associate it with all its relevant content?

I can create a container for the adventure, but then each topic can only have one container. So if I have the Klingons showing up in multiple adventures, that won't work.

I can create an identifier for the adventure, but it seems each topic can only have on identifier.

I can create tag category called "Adventures" and create a tag within that for each adventure. Would that be the best way? Or would you just go with with a loose chain of links from one topic to another?

 

[EightBitz]

Also, I'm going to have a "Federation of Planets". How would you designate its members? In a containing topic? With an identifier? With tags? Or again, with simple links?

 

[EightBitz]

And again, I'm not looking for a comprehensive, step by step, hold my hand through the whole process kind of thing. Just some general advice. And I know there isn't one, single right way to do things. Even if I get five different opinions from three different people, that'll still give me (and others who are wondering the same things) something to work with.

 

[Silveras]

I will offer this..

Because you can only have one Container/Parent per object, I would recommend it for "permanent" things.. like geography (Mountain Ranges don't usually change which Continent they are on, for example). It also makes sense for physical things, like an Individual in a Location.

For more conceptual links, Relationships make sense. Memberships can be temporary, for example, and attitudes are highly changeable.. so Relationships represent that well.

I don't really use tags for filtering. I use them mostly as controlled selection lists. Anything where consistent spelling is important seems like a good candidate for a tag.

 

[EightBitz]

I will offer this..

Because you can only have one Container/Parent per object, I would recommend it for "permanent" things.. like geography (Mountain Ranges don't usually change which Continent they are on, for example). It also makes sense for physical things, like an Individual in a Location.

For more conceptual links, Relationships make sense. Memberships can be temporary, for example, and attitudes are highly changeable.. so Relationships represent that well.

I don't really use tags for filtering. I use them mostly as controlled selection lists. Anything where consistent spelling is important seems like a good candidate for a tag.

Thanks. That's the kind of thing I'm looking for.

 

[enrious]

I think for me, nothing in your scenario screams multiple realms.

After all, for the most part you're describing the same universe simply separated by time. Star Fleet is Star Fleet, and in the Topic for Star Fleet nothing stops you from having a Section for each time frame you're planning - heck, each section can be identical in structure to keep things consistent.

This is especially true when you consider the idea of legacies. This is where relationships come in handy, especially given that some characters appeared in different time frames (Spock, McCoy) or in the same general time frame but in a different campaign (Worf - TNG/DS9).

In other words, your question is to me more properly either "Is there one Star Fleet, just in three different contexts?" or "Are there three different Star Fleets, each existing in a different context?" Once you answer that for yourself, it may provide you guidance.

A specific adventure seems to me to be a mix of the Story Almanac and Story Board, do those not make sense to use for you?

As for something like members of the Federation, Relationships are one way to do it, although I personally don't like creating tons of them if I don't have to. I'd probably do it the way (at least on a trial basis) the way I do superhero groups, something akin to this: https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos/yourphotos?pid=5999694323932503186&oid=105241009415334216697


That's how I've sorta half thought about doing it whenever I start on my ST realm, at any rate.

But then, I actually envision RW data entries being way less for me than for my players, since I improv almost everything. Thus, my main focus is on setting up a structure that my players can quickly grasp and use, knowing that they likely won't look at RW outside of the game.

 

[EightBitz]

The storyboard and almanac do make sense to me, but if I build a 'verse that contains multiple adventures, having one story almanac won't help me distinguish one adventure's content from another's.

With the storyboard, I distinguish separate plots, but I can only see things piecemeal, plot point by plot point. Say I have 50 NPCs, 10 worlds, three space stations, 5 starships, and plot groups for ten adventures. I want to see, at a glance, all the elements related to adventure #5.

When I first asked this question, I wasn't sure of a good way to accommodate that. Now, I'm thinking tags.

 

[Zaphod Beebledoc]

With the storyboard, I distinguish separate plots, but I can only see things piecemeal, plot point by plot point. Say I have 50 NPCs, 10 worlds, three space stations, 5 starships, and plot groups for ten adventures. I want to see, at a glance, all the elements related to adventure #5.

I got to here and was thinking tags too!

 

[Vargr]

This is a very useful thread - at least for me.

I have a world developped over the last 20 years with a lot of notes on pieces of paper and computer notes written on a myriad of computer systems starting with WordPerfect 4.1 for the Amiga. Still probably 85% of the world is still residing inside my head (which is not neccessarily the best place to keep things).

Now I am trying to figure out the best way to transfer all that to RW, but I am quite frankly intimidated by the seemingly Herculean task in front of me.

Where to start? How to ensure, that I organize the database that RW is in the most optimal way? What does all the terms actually cover and how best to utilize them?

I will be following this thread with great interest. Thank you for giving insights into your thoughts and solutions.

 

[ruhar]

I understand what EightBitz is asking but I can't offer any advise because I'm rowing the boat he's in. I supported the Kickstarter and got early access but it didn't help me. I felt like I was handed a toy and told to go have fun and I didn't know where I was suppose to open the box.

I'm not creative enough to create my own worlds and adventures so I'm a module queen. I'm currently running an Adventure Path that has lots of information to try and keep track of. I think RW will be helpful but as I try to enter information I'm scratching my head trying to figure out where to put a piece of information.

Example: Players arrive at a lodge and encounter the guards that won't let them in since they aren't expected. Do I enter in Location, Adventure Area or Scene? There's a description for each room in the lodge and specific encounters for some of the rooms. Where do I put each of them?

Yes, the program allows you to do what is best for your adventure, but you need to know and understand the programmers concept which is the foundation for the rest of us. You always hear that "rules are made to be broken," well you have to know the rules before they can be broken. I'm the type of person that requires someone to show me how to do something. Only then will I be able to decide that something done X way is actually better for me to do Y way.

It's not holding hands, just setting a foundation that users can go with.