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Azhrei
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Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 260

Old December 7th, 2017, 05:16 AM
Yeah, I guess I see the "overpowered" aspect of it.

Given the action economy, I'm using 3-4 turns to accomplish this so surely that has to be worth something? (Turning invisible, moving into position, making the CMB check, then tying the knot the next round.)

Sigh.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LazarX
No bonuses for invisibility in this case. because the bag and you are very visible at this point.
Not exactly. If this were true, there would never be any bonuses for attacking while invisible. You don't turn visible until after you make the attack roll. Not a big deal; I'm going to have to find a different approach, I think.

Thanks everyone, for your input. I don't play a lot of PFS so I'm use to the GM having a lot of latitude...
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PJackson
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Old December 9th, 2017, 03:35 AM
People fight in real life and in fantsy books and films a lot. How often do they try to put bags over opponents heads whilst the opponent is still able to fight?
Would you like your enemies doing it to you during a game?
Of course any DM should allow you to try it, but it should be difficult. Dirty trick seems to be the way to handle it.
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Farling
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Old December 9th, 2017, 01:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Azhrei View Post
Yeah, I guess I see the "overpowered" aspect of it.

Given the action economy, I'm using 3-4 turns to accomplish this so surely that has to be worth something? (Turning invisible, moving into position, making the CMB check, then tying the knot the next round.)
Unless you do all the first three things before the fight starts. :-)

[/QUOTE]Not exactly. If this were true, there would never be any bonuses for attacking while invisible. You don't turn visible until after you make the attack roll. Not a big deal; I'm going to have to find a different approach, I think.[/QUOTE]

Does the bag remain entirely invisible while being placed over the head until it comes into contact with the victim's body?

I would expect an immediate reaction would be to put your hand in inside the bag to try and pull it off, so the clockwork cinch wouldn't pull it tight around his neck.

On the whole, I see all of this (from a GM point of view) as applying modern-day technology/knowledge to medieval/magical situations.

Farling

Author of the CSV2RW tool (http://forums.wolflair.com/showthread.php?t=58156) and the RW Output tool (http://forums.wolflair.com/showthread.php?t=59981)
Farling is offline   #23 Reply With Quote
ErinRigh
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Join Date: Oct 2016
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Old December 11th, 2017, 08:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Farling View Post
On the whole, I see all of this (from a GM point of view) as applying modern-day technology/knowledge to medieval/magical situations.
I have to agree with Farling here. I see this thing as Meta/Power-gaming and personally as a GM running a PFS game, within their structure I would simply rule that your character cannot make the leap to Scientific Theory in order to fathom the mechanism. In other words, he can't figure it out. His magical/medieval brain can't wrap itself around the mechanics. Aztecs had wheels on children's toys but never invented carts. If you had asked them about carts, they wouldn't have got it. Their brains were simply not geared to think about carts in an environment where carts wouldn't have been very functional.

My point is, it takes a Eureka moment to leap from one level of science to another and that happens once in a lifetime to one, maybe 2 people, who push the bounds of science forward. Without outside stimulus there is no incentive towards innovation. It is highly unlikely that anyone would make the scientific leap from spring to spring-loaded on such a small scale.

Basically it falls under the category of just because you can think of it, doesn't mean your character can. Afterall, you are, by definition a nerd, who plays RPGs, chances are you are smarter than the average bear, and usually characters are not. I mean afterall, what is your character's intelligence? Can they even fathom the depth it would take? What is their Wisdom? Can they conceptualize and imagine it? How about Charisma? Are they capable of successfully conveying their concept to a smith who doesn't probably have their intelligence and wisdom?

Ultimately, when it is steam engine time, you steam engine. Until steam engine time, and thing that looks like a steam engine is magic under Clark's Law.

Arthur C Clark's Law: Any technology, suitably advanced, is indistinguishable from magic.

What I am saying is; Your character lives in a magical world with wizards, demons, dragons, and the like, you'd have a better chance of convincing your GM of a magic garrote that blinds your opponent as you strangle him.

Folklore is chalked full of magic shrinking neckwear, think magic!

>>tosses 2 cp on the table, shrugs and sits back down
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Azhrei
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Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 260

Old December 12th, 2017, 04:30 AM
Yep, all of that is why I was asking. In a world that has fireballs and firearms, who knows what has been invented scientifically vs. magically?

I had considered some kind of sovereign glue approach, perhaps coating the inside lip of the bag with it before pulling it over the target’s head. My initial goal was something reusable (for obvious reasons, like expense!) but using s.g. could work as well.

And now I’m wondering whether shrink item could be applied to the bag...

I’m always looking for some new way to apply mundane things.
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