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rob
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Old February 17th, 2017, 11:04 PM
There have been a few users decrying the recent change that forbids duplicate names for structure elements. So I figured I should take the time to explain that this change was not taken lightly. We always strive to make Realm Works as flexible as possible, and as adaptive as possible to every user's preferences. It's extremely rare that we remove some aspect of flexibility from the product, but this happened to be a very special case.

The problem centers on the export and re-import of material. The presence of duplicate names introduces some profound complications into that process when combined with a variety of situations that can arise. In the normal case, duplicate names are no issue whatsoever. However, in these various situations we've identified, the reliability of the export and import is compromised when duplicate names are introduced into the structure. These are NOT obscure cases, either. They happen to be cases that users ran into and then reported to us as problems (typically as crashes during import that we investigated and tied back to the naming issue).

We've been working to come up with a solution to these use cases for the past few weeks. Unfortunately, everything we came up with still had a hole when duplicate names were involved. In the end, we determined that the only way to ensure that export and import could be made 100% reliable was to preclude the use of duplicate names. The export and import mechanisms are fundamental to the imminent Content Market, and content sharing in general, so duplicate names became something that could no longer be supported.

Thankfully, the percentage of users impacted by this new restriction is extremely low, as the vast majority of users don't have any duplicate names whatsoever across their realms. However, that doesn't help those of you who actively leverage duplicate names for specific purposes. To those of you in this select group, I'm genuinely sorry that we had to impose this restriction. There simply wasn't another way forward that allowed us to fully support both export/import and duplicate names.

There are a few potential workarounds that can be used to get around this new limitation that I can share...

Snippet types with the same name are where this limitation will most likely impact users. Since it is simple to create a snippet based on a type in one section and then move it to another section, the names must be unique across an entire category - not just within a given section definition. However, this very behavior presents one workaround option. Instead of having a snippet type with the same name in multiple sections, you can define it in only one. Then you can create a snippet based on that type in whatever section you need it. The key drawback of this approach is if you want to auto-add snippets for each of these types in multiple sections, which this approach doesn't support.

Ideally, two snippets types with the same name in different sections can ultimately be named distinctly. Since they appear in different sections, are they truly the EXACT same thing? Or are there subtle differences based on the section? If there are even minor differences, then perhaps one of them can be renamed without negatively impacting way derived topics/articles are presented. However, if they ARE the same thing, this isn't a viable option.

If you truly need the "same" snippet type in multiple sections, then the simplest solution is probably to just name them slightly differently. Even a single character of difference is sufficient (although changing letter case is not). Obviously, this isn't an ideal solution, since you end up with minor differences in the name/label based on where the snippet occurs in the topic/article, but it does enable you to have "near" duplicates. For example, if the name is two words, you could insert an extra space into one of them, resulting in only a very subtle difference in the label shown that doesn't really impact the readability of derived topics/articles.

Category names are only really used during creation of a new topic/article, and having two categories with the same name, even in different family groupings, is probably going to be confusing sometimes. Consequently, when categories have duplicate names, it's usually not that big of a deal to just rename one to something distinct.

Tag domains and section definitions are conspicuously absent from the list above. Tag domains and section definitions with the same name are typically going to cause all sorts of confusion. I can't think of where this would be a good strategy, so I'm not sure what a good workaround would be. If someone has an example where they leveraged duplicate names for either of these structure elements, please let me know the scenario and I'll do my best to recommend a workaround.

I realize that none of these solutions is ideal. Imposing this naming limitation in the first place isn't ideal. Unfortunately, it's a necessity. So I'm just trying to come up with ways to help those of you who are impacted work through this change and get something that comes close to what you had before.

Hope this helps!
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Vargr
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Old February 18th, 2017, 12:43 AM
Thank you for the explaination.

A lot of stuff is easier to accept when you know the reason behind :-)

Luckily it seems I can simply limit myself to one snippet in the category and then add additional similar snippets in the topic itself when populating it. At least I don't get any warnings so I assume nothing terrible will occur down the line :-)

I can live with that :-)

Vargr
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Legend has it, that the Tarrasque is a huge fighting beast, perpetually hungry.
Sleet entered History when he managed to get on the back of a Tarrasque only to be ridden out of History shortly after.

Using Realm Works, Worldographer (Hexographer 2), LibreOffice, Daz3D Studio, pen & paper for the realm World of Temeon and the system LEFD - both homebrewed.

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Bidmaron
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Old February 18th, 2017, 04:03 AM
Vargr, can you give us an example of where you've run into the problem?
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Vargr
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Old February 18th, 2017, 04:39 AM
It is quite simple and probably just due to my weird way of doing stuff.

Example:
I have made a custom category (a new Individual) ad I have made a several snippets that I repeat 3-4 times, such as "Language", "BTL" (Bring To Life) and "Date", so that I - when populating the topic - quickly can insert a language (and one only) into each snippet. The same with "BTL" and "Date".

I know, that this is what tags is for, but I tend to add more than just "Common", "Thief Chant" or what-ever. Things like "Low class, Hovenna dialect".

But if I just have ONE of each I can add as many as I want when populating the topic. Not as intuitive nor fast (for me), but it works and the end result will be the same.

So I am fine :-)

Vargr
Deputy Calendar Champion


Legend has it, that the Tarrasque is a huge fighting beast, perpetually hungry.
Sleet entered History when he managed to get on the back of a Tarrasque only to be ridden out of History shortly after.

Using Realm Works, Worldographer (Hexographer 2), LibreOffice, Daz3D Studio, pen & paper for the realm World of Temeon and the system LEFD - both homebrewed.

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Farling
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Old February 18th, 2017, 07:27 AM
Ctrl-Enter starts a new snippet, if you need to add several of your language snippets at once.
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AEIOU
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Old February 18th, 2017, 07:43 AM
My situation is the same as Vargr's. I use a "Source" tag which I create 2 of in every topic. My main realm is sitting at over 2800 topics. I totally understand why LWD made the change and I agree with it. The joys of being an early adopter. Short term pain for the long term gain.

Source is a reserved name so I've renamed one to Reference. Since one of my sources was always the publisher, I renamed that to Publisher. However, some publishers are under Reference and some references are under Publisher because they had both been called Source originally without any differentiation.... So I'm doing a topic-by-topic check while also removing other snippets that are now part of the official structure that I'd added. Might as well clean it all up at once.
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Bidmaron
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Old February 18th, 2017, 08:13 AM
I would say your situation is different. I see no reason vagyr cannot just enter multiple bring to life's on the same snippet. You are using tags but your solution seems workable. The question is would hybrid tags help any of this? I am still a little fuzzy in those things
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salcor
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Old February 18th, 2017, 08:13 AM
Hello,

So I have not had any of the errors that have been discussed here, but when I upgraded it said I had duplicate names. Based off the discussion here I am a little confused so please excuse my ignorance.

If I understand Rob's post correctly having the same snippet in different topics that violates the "no duplicate names rule.". So for example I am using the Savage Worlds structure and I have been inputting weapons. Each entry in the weapons have a snippet for damage. Does this violate the duplicates rule?

Thanks for the education.

Salcor
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Zaphod Beebledoc
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Old February 18th, 2017, 09:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by salcor View Post
Hello,

So I have not had any of the errors that have been discussed here, but when I upgraded it said I had duplicate names. Based off the discussion here I am a little confused so please excuse my ignorance.

If I understand Rob's post correctly having the same snippet in different topics that violates the "no duplicate names rule.". So for example I am using the Savage Worlds structure and I have been inputting weapons. Each entry in the weapons have a snippet for damage. Does this violate the duplicates rule?

Thanks for the education.

Salcor
Quote:
Originally Posted by Release Notes
Duplicate names for categories, section definition, snippet types, and tag domains are now forbidden. All category and domain names must be unique within the realm. All section definitions and snippet types must be uniquely named within each category.
You could make a category that consists of one section and one snippet. Then create a topic, and populate it with hundreds of the same snippet type. (When the topic is created, you would only have one snippet, you could use Ctrl-Ent or the hammer and wrench to create the new ones.) The restriction as far as I understand it, is within the definition.

So...

Category > Unique to Realm
Section Definition > Unique to Category
Snippet Type > Unique to Category

Tag Domain Name > Unique to Realm
Tags > No Restriction

Sleet was enjoying a tasty beverage at his local tavern, when a Tarrasque showed up in the local area. He managed to valiantly get on it's back and ride it. How he did it is a mystery to this day...

RW: Engine Heart, I Love The Corps! Home Brew: Star Gate: Avalon, Monda Minutia. I'm good with: OpenOffice, Paint, Lego Digital Designer. & not so good with: Realm Works, Hero Lab, CC3+, GIMP, Cityographer, Hexographer, Fractal Mapper, AstroSynth, Inspiration Pad Pro. RW Kickstarter Supporter.

Last edited by Zaphod Beebledoc; February 18th, 2017 at 09:19 AM.
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Farling
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Old February 18th, 2017, 09:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by salcor View Post
If I understand Rob's post correctly having the same snippet in different topics that violates the "no duplicate names rule.". So for example I am using the Savage Worlds structure and I have been inputting weapons. Each entry in the weapons have a snippet for damage. Does this violate the duplicates rule?
Salcor
If you are entering new topics then you are fine.

The restriction only applies if you start changing the category definitions (usually for unsupported game systems).
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