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Endtransmission
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Join Date: May 2012
Location: Reading, UK
Posts: 79

Old April 6th, 2013, 11:50 AM
Hopefully this is in the right place, otherwise... please move it to where it should be. I'm putting together a datafile for the Savage Worlds / Achtung! Cthulhu adventure setting Three Kings. So far it's all going well for my first data file, but I've got one last thing to fix before I'm ready to start testing it properly...

As this is a Cthulhu game, there are books of mythos spells floating around. I'd like to be able to bootstrap spells to a character when I add the tome, but for some reason this is erroring.

I've created the spell:

<thing id="powACDeRe" name="Devouring Retribution" description="Summon Shoggoth - The wielder has no control over the released Shoggoth" compset="Power" summary="Summon Shoggoth" uniqueness="useronce">
<usesource source="ACTKing"/>
<tag group="MinRank" tag="1"/>
</thing>


And the tome:

<thing id="eqACBoS" name="The Book of Shadows" description="The Book of Shadows, also known as Schatten Des Weigen Dunkels or Shadows of the Eternal Dark, is a mythos grimoir" compset="Equipment" summary="Mythos Grimoir" uniqueness="unique">
<fieldval field="shortname" value="Book of Shadows"/>
<usesource source="ACTKing"/>
<tag group="GearType" tag="ACGrimoir" name="Grimoir"/>
<bootstrap thing="eqWireCut"></bootstrap>
<bootstrap thing="vhSdkfz7"></bootstrap>
<bootstrap thing="powACDeRe"></bootstrap>
</thing>


I get the following message, but can't figure out where it's failing:


"Attempt to access non-live child pick 'resPowers' from script location: 'eval' script for Component 'Power' (Eval Script '#2') near line 3"



As you can see, I've added a couple of other items via bootstrap to check that I'd got it right... eqWireCut and vhSdkfz7 get added perfectly, just not powACDeRe. As soon as I remove <bootstrap thing="powACDeRe"></bootstrap> the error goes away, which makes me suspect we're not allowed to bootstrap powers?

the weird thing is that powers do show up in the list of available items that you can bootstrap in the editor... so I'm a bit confused...
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zarlor
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Old April 6th, 2013, 07:26 PM
I've been really busy today and just got home and I'm too exhausted to see if I can figure that out right now, but I'll try to take a closer look tomorrow morning if somebody else doesn't jump in first.

Lenny Zimmermann
Metairie, LA, USA

Data files authored (please let me know if you see any issues with any of these if you have/use them):
Official (In the downloader)
50 Fathoms, Deadlands: Hell On Earth, Deadlands: Noir, East Texas University, Necessary Evil (requires Super Powers Companion), Pirates of the Spanish Main, Space 1889 (original file by Erich), Tour of Darkness, Weird War II, Weird Wars: Rome
Coming Soon
Evernight (LWD has completed their review but I have some fixes to make first)
Unofficial Files (PM me to get a copy if you need it)
Necropolis (NOT Necropolis 2350. I have the version from when it was still a PEG, Inc. property but I have 2350 and I have been looking at updating to that version in the near future.)
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jbearwillis
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Old April 6th, 2013, 09:13 PM
I could be totally off base but You might see how some of the magic items work and see if any one of them might give you an idea of how to do it. You are doing something I haven't tried yet, but I would think with how magic items work you might be able to in some fashion.
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zarlor
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Old April 7th, 2013, 05:51 AM
Magic items don't seem to bootstrap powers to characters (not that I've found, anyway) but extensively use the Gizmo section to put their effects on magic items, but even then they have their own separate set-up for MIPowers rather than the nromal powers a character uses. The examples I find in data files where Powers are bootstrapped involve either an AB that bootstraps a specific power or a creature that bootstraps a power, but even in those cases the creature also bootstraps an Arcane Background.

SO, my guess is that the item can't bootstrap the power without also having some kind of AB already done on the character which would do all of the background stuff that adds an Arcane Power tab to the portfolio and sets up power points and such. So the question is, how does Achtung, Cthulu! handle those things? Does ahving a book give the character some number of power points that they can use to cast the power int he book all the time? Do those power points only come in the book? Or is it a one-shot thing or what? I think we'd have to make sure the underlying structure needs to be there before just bootstrapping in a power.

Lenny Zimmermann
Metairie, LA, USA

Data files authored (please let me know if you see any issues with any of these if you have/use them):
Official (In the downloader)
50 Fathoms, Deadlands: Hell On Earth, Deadlands: Noir, East Texas University, Necessary Evil (requires Super Powers Companion), Pirates of the Spanish Main, Space 1889 (original file by Erich), Tour of Darkness, Weird War II, Weird Wars: Rome
Coming Soon
Evernight (LWD has completed their review but I have some fixes to make first)
Unofficial Files (PM me to get a copy if you need it)
Necropolis (NOT Necropolis 2350. I have the version from when it was still a PEG, Inc. property but I have 2350 and I have been looking at updating to that version in the near future.)
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Endtransmission
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Old April 7th, 2013, 08:58 AM
Thanks for the comments guys. The two current Achtung! Cthulhu books are supposed to run off the Realms of Cthulhu system, but I've found a few differences in how things work. They just finished a Kickstarter for their own GM and Player books with everything the players will need, so I would rather avoid extending Realms of Cthulhu if I can, as things will likely change when their own setting books come out.

The tome is basically book with some spells in. You can spend d4 weeks translating it and once you understand the book you have access to the spells contained within it. You don't appear (at this point in time) to need an Arcane Background to cast the spells, just Knowledge (Mythos). You have access to the spells for as long as you have the book and can use them as many times as you want assuming you have the various trappings necessary to run the ritual.

I think you may have just hit the nail on the head though... As I've got no arcane backgrounds, Hero Lab doesn't have anywhere to add the spells to (which could be our error). Maybe I need to grant everyone with Knowledge (Mythos) a special Arcane Background, even though it's not mentioned in the Achtung! Cthulhu books?

[update] Ok, I created a new Arcane Background called Mythos that basically disallows all of the other Arcane powers and bootstrapped this to the setting so all characters currently get it. This seems to have resolved the error with the book then bootstrapping my spell to the character. Thanks!

Now to work out how to add the Arcane Background when you acquire Knowledge (Mythos)! The Bootstrap page in the wiki talks about conditional bootstrapping, but doesn't contain an example... do you know where there this is used that I can look at please?

Last edited by Endtransmission; April 7th, 2013 at 09:52 AM.
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Old April 7th, 2013, 09:17 AM
Speaking of adding things to characters via the book... When the character translates it, there are two permanent bonuses that get applied to the character, even if they then lose or sell the book. They are supposed to gain 1 level of Knowledge (Mythos) and decrease their sanity level. I can get most of these effects to occur while the book is in the player's possession, but I can't work out how to permanently apply either of them.

Sanity is handled in the same way as in the Tour of Darkness setting (2+(Spirit/2)) and I'm tracking sanity loss through a custom injury. If I bootstrap an injury to the book, the injury goes away when they lose the book; which isn't quite what I want.

Is there any way to script the permanently addition of an injury or skill to a character? My search-fu has failed me on this one so far. Thanks again!
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zarlor
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Old April 7th, 2013, 05:41 PM
Don't get me started on conditional bootstrapping! Suffice to say there is not such thing, at least not directly. You kind of have to approach it from the side or otherwise just apply the effects of whatever it was you wanted to bootstrap. Your approach of giving it as a base to everyone probably works best, just maybe set it with 0 power points or something. You could try to use a containerreq to hide the AB unless Knowledge (Mythos) is taken, though. Which might work but I find containerreqs to be fairly temperamental and only work in certain instances, but not others. You might check out the Deadlands Noir file, though, and see if how the Dominion Trait is hidden in that file might work for this method if a direct containerreq doesn't.

For applying a permanent effect from a bootstrapped item, though... I'd have to play around with that to see what would work. Let me see if I can find something tomorrow or maybe JBear or someone else will have some ideas or a chance to play with it before I do.

Lenny Zimmermann
Metairie, LA, USA

Data files authored (please let me know if you see any issues with any of these if you have/use them):
Official (In the downloader)
50 Fathoms, Deadlands: Hell On Earth, Deadlands: Noir, East Texas University, Necessary Evil (requires Super Powers Companion), Pirates of the Spanish Main, Space 1889 (original file by Erich), Tour of Darkness, Weird War II, Weird Wars: Rome
Coming Soon
Evernight (LWD has completed their review but I have some fixes to make first)
Unofficial Files (PM me to get a copy if you need it)
Necropolis (NOT Necropolis 2350. I have the version from when it was still a PEG, Inc. property but I have 2350 and I have been looking at updating to that version in the near future.)
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jbearwillis
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Posts: 717

Old April 7th, 2013, 07:21 PM
You could make an Hindrance that will give you knowledge (Mythos) level 1 and also have it drop your sanity by a level and when you make the hindrance you could check the Omit from printout that way the hindrance doesn't show up on character sheets but gives you the benefits of said hindrance. So when you sale the book take the hindrance. I will have to work on it but that may be the way to go. Just a thought - I will play with it tomorrow.
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zarlor
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Old April 8th, 2013, 06:29 AM
I think I'd agree with jbear. You may have to create some Hindrances that the player can add using the Advance mechanic (since it won't charge you for taking a Hindrance, this is also how I started handling Coup in DL Noir and HoER, for instance). Equipment does only seem to provide an effect from it as long as it's in inventory so I'm not sure I can think of a way to make any effect from an item be "sticky" once the item is gone. Presumably that might require a change to the core data files, and if you would like to see that happen please be sure to post it on the "What changes/enhancements would you like to see?" thread.

Unless maybe CapedCrusdaer or Mathias or someone with more knowledge and skill with the program besides us has some other ideas, that is.

Lenny Zimmermann
Metairie, LA, USA

Data files authored (please let me know if you see any issues with any of these if you have/use them):
Official (In the downloader)
50 Fathoms, Deadlands: Hell On Earth, Deadlands: Noir, East Texas University, Necessary Evil (requires Super Powers Companion), Pirates of the Spanish Main, Space 1889 (original file by Erich), Tour of Darkness, Weird War II, Weird Wars: Rome
Coming Soon
Evernight (LWD has completed their review but I have some fixes to make first)
Unofficial Files (PM me to get a copy if you need it)
Necropolis (NOT Necropolis 2350. I have the version from when it was still a PEG, Inc. property but I have 2350 and I have been looking at updating to that version in the near future.)
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jbearwillis
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Old April 8th, 2013, 07:37 AM
Well it worked fairly well for the Harrowed - Just minus the faction attached to it - I think it would work fine.
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