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TobyFox2002
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Old July 3rd, 2014, 12:36 PM
Is the error a persistant error (yells at you every time you make an action), or one that only yells at you when you open, save or test your work?

I can live with it it yells at you only when saving and opening.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Sendric View Post
Yea, the biggest issue we run into is being able to keep track of multiple spell-casting classes (ie cleric-wizard or bard-druid). The ability to have both class tabs available for this is key. There's a tag you can assign to create the tab, but without the class level it gives errors.

Ultimately, there may not be a good solution with how the d20 system is currently set up.
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Sendric
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Old July 4th, 2014, 06:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TobyFox2002 View Post
Is the error a persistant error (yells at you every time you make an action), or one that only yells at you when you open, save or test your work?

I can live with it it yells at you only when saving and opening.
It's a persistent error I believe.
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DeltaMasterMind
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Old July 6th, 2014, 12:16 PM
What is the practice of setting up the Gestalt option under the d20 system? I am trying to do this as well using Sorcerer and Warmage. Granted I don't code so console commands with Herolab are challenging for me atm.
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ShadowChemosh
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Old July 6th, 2014, 08:06 PM
So speaking of Gestalt classes. I have a "game" question for everyone that is using the Gestalt rules.

For example we have a character that takes:
1st Fighter/Monk
2nd Monk/Rogue


What is the BASE save values of the above character? What is the BAB of the above character?

I would appreciate the input of others in this area.

Hero Lab Resources:
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TobyFox2002
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Old July 6th, 2014, 11:52 PM
Take the best from each... so Good Base Save and Good Base Attack as Monk. Just wanting to point out, 99.9% of all GM's are not going to let you take more than one gestalt. They are just too powerful.

For more information on gestalts I highly recommend reading the section on gestalting in Arcana Unearthed.
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ShadowChemosh
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Old July 7th, 2014, 10:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TobyFox2002 View Post
For more information on gestalts I highly recommend reading the section on gestalting in Arcana Unearthed.
You mean the paragraph of info? Yea read it and no answer is found within.
Quote:
Originally Posted by d20srd
Base Saving Throw Bonuses: For each save bonus, choose the better progression from the two classes. For example, a 1st-level gestalt fighter/wizard would have base saving throw bonuses of Fortitude +2, Reflex +0, Will +2—taking the good Fortitude save from the fighter class and the good Will save from the wizard class.
Which is why I was hoping for some input from the community for how others have calculated the values. Its clear from the gestalt rules that multiclassing is allowed. But how you combine those values is not clear...

Hero Lab Resources:
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Hero Lab Help - Hero Lab FAQ, Editor Tutorials and Videos, Editor & Scripting Resources.
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- d20 HL package volunteer editor.

Last edited by ShadowChemosh; July 7th, 2014 at 10:29 AM.
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Sendric
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Old July 7th, 2014, 11:02 AM
My understanding is that you always take the best from each. When you mix the classes, though, that can certainly get confusing. Let's see how your example would work:

1st Fighter/Monk - Good BAB (Fighter), Good Fort, Ref, Will saves (Monk)
2nd Monk/Rogue - Medium BAB (both), Good Fort, Ref, Will saves (Monk)

I would treat it the same way you treat adding a new class to an existing character. For example, a 1st Fighter / 1st Rogue would have a +1 BAB, +2 Fort, +2 Ref, +0 Will. Treating each of those levels as new classes would provide a +1 BAB, +4 to all saves. That said, I think there's an argument to be made against doing that for the saves in this case. Since you are progressing as a Monk, and you are using the Monk's progression for saves, you could easily treat this as second level for this purpose, thereby giving the character a +3 to all saves.

So, I guess what I would really do here is instead of viewing "Monk/Rogue" as a different class than "Fighter/Monk", I would view it as 2 levels of good progression for saves and 1 level each for good and medium progression for BAB. I'll add two more hypothetical levels for fun:

1st Fighter/Monk (+1 BAB ; +2 all saves)
2nd Monk/Rogue (+1 BAB ; +3 all saves)
3rd Rogue/Wizard (+2 BAB ; +3 all saves)
4th Monk/Wizard (+3 BAB ; +3 Fort/Ref ; +4 Will)

The break-down is as follows:
BAB: 1 level good progression (+1) plus 3 levels medium progression (+2)
Fort/Ref: 3 levels good progression (+3) plus 1 level poor progression (+0)
Will: 4 levels good progression (+4)

Doing it this way might help keep the progression from getting crazy.

Last edited by Sendric; July 7th, 2014 at 11:16 AM.
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TobyFox2002
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Old July 7th, 2014, 11:02 AM
This is a rundown of how gestalting works.
  • Hit Dice: Best of Two Classes
  • Saves: Best of Both Classes
  • BaB: Best of Both Classes
  • Classes Skills: Take the higher of two classes Cleric/Rogue takes 8+int.
  • Combine the class skills of both classes.
  • Class Features: Take both, penalties of one apply to the other. Arcane
  • Spell fail applies to both, druid's metal restriction etc.
  • Class features that share a features share accrue at the faster rate (uncanny dodge).
  • More than one spell-casting class keep track separately.
  • A gestalt class cant combine prestige classes at any level but you can combine a base class with a prestige class. (Although some prestige classes should be prohibited, arcane trickster, mystic theurge, eldritch knight, etc.
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ShadowChemosh
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Old July 7th, 2014, 12:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sendric View Post
1st Fighter/Monk (+1 BAB ; +2 all saves)
2nd Monk/Rogue (+1 BAB ; +3 all saves)
3rd Rogue/Wizard (+2 BAB ; +3 all saves)
4th Monk/Wizard (+3 BAB ; +3 Fort/Ref ; +4 Will)
I thought this way at first but went with that the "rogue" should provide its +2 as its a new class. Giving 3,5,3 for saves.

Just pulling the best "save" and progressing is not a bad way either and makes sense. The issue is my new Pathfinder gestalt addon has complaints that the saves in this example should be 3,4,3 as the monk increased Ref by +1 and the Rogue increased by 2 so we increase by 2 not 1.

Currently my addon sees the rogue level as a "new" class and adds in the value. This seemed to make sense based on what you said Sendric. I see it as having two levels of monk giving 3,3,3 and then the rogue applies new values of +2 Ref. From the point of view that a normal Monk 2 / Rogue 1 would have saves of 3,5,3 it makes sense.

I guess the question is if the monk/rogue is a "new" class or not? Its really confusing when you add in multiclassing here. My other thought is if monk/rogue is a "new" class then it should have base saves of 2,2,2 added to the level 1 fighter/monk to get 4,4,4.

Doing a google search provided no real answers as most people are all over the place. The only one that surfaced is many use the fractional BAB and Save method from the UA as that makes things easier to figure out....

sigh....

Hero Lab Resources:
Pathfinder - d20pfsrd and Pathfinder Pack Setup
3.5 D&D (d20) - Community Server Setup
5E D&D - Community Server Setup
Hero Lab Help - Hero Lab FAQ, Editor Tutorials and Videos, Editor & Scripting Resources.
Created by the community for the community
- Realm Works kickstarter backer (Alpha Wolf) and Beta tester.
- d20 HL package volunteer editor.
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Sendric
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Old July 7th, 2014, 07:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShadowChemosh View Post
I thought this way at first but went with that the "rogue" should provide its +2 as its a new class. Giving 3,5,3 for saves.
.
.
.
Doing a google search provided no real answers as most people are all over the place. The only one that surfaced is many use the fractional BAB and Save method from the UA as that makes things easier to figure out....

sigh....
Can't argue with that. It seems to be sound enough logic. Woulda been nice if they provided some examples in UA, though.

Toby mentioned earlier that most DM's don't allow multiple gestalt classes like this because it becomes too powerful. I say go ahead. Just as long as they know we DM's get to play by the same rules.
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