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ShadowChemosh
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Old July 1st, 2014, 10:42 AM
The way I was going to go with a Pathfinder Gestalt addon was similar to how I implemented the play test for Mythic characters. You have the player add "three" characters. One is your Wizard, one is your Cleric, and one is a "gestalt" class. The gestalt class lets you pick your two classes for "level 1" it then figures out your saves, skills, and hit points and assigns it to itself. It then takes the wizard class and cleric levels and takes them out of the leveling process. You end up with a Level 1 character with three classes but two of them are only used for their "Class Specials" and the "Gestalt" class is used for Skills, HP, BAB, Caster Level, and saves.

At level "2" you add two more class levels of say wizard/cleric but could be other classes. And on the Gestalt class tab you would have a class special to pick the level two classes. As we are taking the two classes out of the leveling process we should have no problem supporting characters up to level 20. The gestalt class just has 20 class specials allowing for picking two classes that are combine together.

Granted its not "perfect" but it will allow you to easily combine any two classes and it will support two caster classes.

Obviously its allot of work and I have not even finished it in Pathfinder (other than theory) but that was my "idea" to fix the issue.

Hero Lab Resources:
Pathfinder - d20pfsrd and Pathfinder Pack Setup
3.5 D&D (d20) - Community Server Setup
5E D&D - Community Server Setup
Hero Lab Help - Hero Lab FAQ, Editor Tutorials and Videos, Editor & Scripting Resources.
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Sendric
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Old July 1st, 2014, 10:45 AM
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Originally Posted by ShadowChemosh View Post
It then takes the wizard class and cleric levels and takes them out of the leveling process.
Ok, this is where I'm stuck. How the heck do you do that?
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ShadowChemosh
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Old July 1st, 2014, 03:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Sendric View Post
Ok, this is where I'm stuck. How the heck do you do that?
I can explain it and even have examples in Pathfinder but d20 sometimes can be different. This was exactly the fun part I had to do for the Mythic playtest.

Basically you strip all "hero.hitdice" tags and reset the hero fields (tHitDice) yourself manually at like post-levels/10. Which in Pathfinder at least is "right" after all the class and Hit Dice have been calculated. So I then remove all the hitdice tags and reset fields to zero. This also included BAB and Save Progression values which will be pulled from the Gestalt class. Then "recalculate" those Hit Dice values and re-add the tags back to the hero. In this case changing the addition of "3HD" of classes into 1HD of classes. Everything from that point forwards sees "1HD" of classes.

Then at least in Pathfinder I also had found a special "tag" that when applied to a class would remove the "hit Point" area of the classes so that the wizard/cleric couldn't type in their hit point and instead it would only be placed onto the "gestalt" level.

In theory Pathfinder is built from the code base of d20 so it "should" all work. Of course in theory the bumble bee can't fly!

Hero Lab Resources:
Pathfinder - d20pfsrd and Pathfinder Pack Setup
3.5 D&D (d20) - Community Server Setup
5E D&D - Community Server Setup
Hero Lab Help - Hero Lab FAQ, Editor Tutorials and Videos, Editor & Scripting Resources.
Created by the community for the community
- Realm Works kickstarter backer (Alpha Wolf) and Beta tester.
- d20 HL package volunteer editor.
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TobyFox2002
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Old July 1st, 2014, 03:24 PM
So you created a new tab named Gestalt, or you created a new class named gestalt?




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Originally Posted by ShadowChemosh View Post
......Of course in theory the bumble bee can't fly!
Lol Yes.. curse those bumble bees defying the laws of physics!
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ShadowChemosh
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Old July 1st, 2014, 03:29 PM
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Originally Posted by TobyFox2002 View Post
So you created a new tab named Gestalt, or you created a new class named gestalt?
Sorry "tab" and "class" I was using interchangeable above. The Gestalt class would have its own tab by default.

Hero Lab Resources:
Pathfinder - d20pfsrd and Pathfinder Pack Setup
3.5 D&D (d20) - Community Server Setup
5E D&D - Community Server Setup
Hero Lab Help - Hero Lab FAQ, Editor Tutorials and Videos, Editor & Scripting Resources.
Created by the community for the community
- Realm Works kickstarter backer (Alpha Wolf) and Beta tester.
- d20 HL package volunteer editor.
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TobyFox2002
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Old July 1st, 2014, 03:38 PM
That would be lovely if it were possible, that wouldn't be a fix, but a full on permanent solution but in order to do that you'd need extensive knowledge of how hero labs was coded wouldn't you?

And staff permission to change how the program functioned. Yikes, thats.. yikes.
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ShadowChemosh
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Old July 1st, 2014, 03:48 PM
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Originally Posted by TobyFox2002 View Post
That would be lovely if it were possible, that wouldn't be a fix, but a full on permanent solution but in order to do that you'd need extensive knowledge of how hero labs was coded wouldn't you?
Yes this is a "very" advanced idea and would take good knowledge of HL and how to dig into the values, tags, and timing. I would estimate 80-120hrs of work to get this to work and to get through allot of unit testing.

I am just putting out an "idea" but not one that is "easy".

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Originally Posted by TobyFox2002 View Post
And staff permission to change how the program functioned. Yikes, thats.. yikes.
Nope. My above idea would be how the "community" would do this. Not LW or how I would do this using the Authoring kit. Why I would "love" to add this feature their is allot more "base" features I think are more important for d20 currently.

So the above is a theory for how someone like Sendric maybe able to build something for the community.

The variant or archetype methods do currently work for both "d20 and pathfinder".

Hero Lab Resources:
Pathfinder - d20pfsrd and Pathfinder Pack Setup
3.5 D&D (d20) - Community Server Setup
5E D&D - Community Server Setup
Hero Lab Help - Hero Lab FAQ, Editor Tutorials and Videos, Editor & Scripting Resources.
Created by the community for the community
- Realm Works kickstarter backer (Alpha Wolf) and Beta tester.
- d20 HL package volunteer editor.
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Sendric
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Old July 2nd, 2014, 05:20 AM
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Originally Posted by ShadowChemosh View Post
Yes this is a "very" advanced idea and would take good knowledge of HL and how to dig into the values, tags, and timing. I would estimate 80-120hrs of work to get this to work and to get through allot of unit testing.

I am just putting out an "idea" but not one that is "easy".


Nope. My above idea would be how the "community" would do this. Not LW or how I would do this using the Authoring kit. Why I would "love" to add this feature their is allot more "base" features I think are more important for d20 currently.

So the above is a theory for how someone like Sendric maybe able to build something for the community.

The variant or archetype methods do currently work for both "d20 and pathfinder".
I'll give it a whirl. I work pretty fast, so I'll reduce that 80-120 hrs estimate. Honestly, though, it if ends up taking that long I'd probably have given up long before then.

BTW, this was more or less the path I was heading down anyway. The area I ran into major trouble was removing the other class(es) from the skills tab. Any ideas on how to do that would be greatly appreciated.

Last edited by Sendric; July 2nd, 2014 at 05:34 AM.
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RavenX
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Old July 3rd, 2014, 03:10 AM
Gestalt(s) are the 2nd ed. multiclassing method brought to 3.5 through Unearthed Arcana. Taking two classes and taking the better options between the two. They're new classes in their own right. If you're going to edit source code, you might just want to build a new gestalt component based similarly on classes that uses a foreach loop and takes the best progression from each class. You will end up with a lot of scripts doing it this way though. It will be time intensive to do it though.

Have you tried building a new Gestalt class instead? You could use pull down menus possibly and then tell hero lab to make the class features available through tags. You'd still need the foreach loops, but it would take less time to build.

RavenX

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Last edited by RavenX; July 3rd, 2014 at 03:12 AM.
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Sendric
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Old July 3rd, 2014, 12:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RavenX View Post
Gestalt(s) are the 2nd ed. multiclassing method brought to 3.5 through Unearthed Arcana. Taking two classes and taking the better options between the two. They're new classes in their own right. If you're going to edit source code, you might just want to build a new gestalt component based similarly on classes that uses a foreach loop and takes the best progression from each class. You will end up with a lot of scripts doing it this way though. It will be time intensive to do it though.

Have you tried building a new Gestalt class instead? You could use pull down menus possibly and then tell hero lab to make the class features available through tags. You'd still need the foreach loops, but it would take less time to build.
Yea, the biggest issue we run into is being able to keep track of multiple spell-casting classes (ie cleric-wizard or bard-druid). The ability to have both class tabs available for this is key. There's a tag you can assign to create the tab, but without the class level it gives errors.

Ultimately, there may not be a good solution with how the d20 system is currently set up.
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