Is Hero Lab Online worth it?

[Dragnmoon]

Originally Posted by rob

This is definitely part of the roadmap. And it's a pretty high priority item on that roadmap. The critical caveat is that it will be as a VIEWER and not allow modifications that need to go through the server (which is everything now, but we'd like to make things like HP and the like able to be adjusted while offline).

I am wondering if it will allow to apply effects/traits/turn things on off/condition..

So if the the wizard casts a buff spell can I apply that spell in offline mode?

If my character gets flat footed, can I apply that condition?

[rob]

Originally Posted by Dragnmoon

I am wondering if it will allow to apply effects/traits/turn things on off/condition..

So if the the wizard casts a buff spell can I apply that spell in offline mode?

If my character gets flat footed, can I apply that condition?

Buffs and whatnot have cascading impact on the character, which requires it go through the engine (on the server) to apply all those cascading effects. Consequently, the best we could do is allow you to just flag that it's on. All calculations would have to be done locally by the user, just like with a printed character sheet.

[magpi]

Originally Posted by rob

Buffs and whatnot have cascading impact on the character, which requires it go through the engine (on the server) to apply all those cascading effects. Consequently, the best we could do is allow you to just flag that it's on. All calculations would have to be done locally by the user, just like with a printed character sheet.

Rob, I am not crazy about that, but I understand the limitation. At the very least, being able to run a 'simple' combat, ie Player A stabs Goblin 1 who loses X health, would be pretty good as a start.

For myself at the least, and maybe others, the biggest gap between HLC and HLO is the lack of custom content. While we do have some custom stuff now (weapons, armor, feats, races, et cetera) most of these tend to need other adjustments in the adjustments tab. In particular, being able to somehow save my weapons/armor that I created for my characters would be great. In addition, being able to get some of the adjustments back that were present in the Playtest and in Starfinder would be great, chiefly being able to directly adjust the number of selections allowed in table, most especially feats.

Just as a side note, I was one of the people who was pretty skeptical of HLO coming from HLC for years, but more and more I see you all improving and adding new stuff. I am very excited to see where HLO keeps going, while it has it's flaws, it is quickly becoming a really great tool to make my life as a forever GM easier!

[rob]

Originally Posted by magpi

For myself at the least, and maybe others, the biggest gap between HLC and HLO is the lack of custom content. While we do have some custom stuff now (weapons, armor, feats, races, et cetera) most of these tend to need other adjustments in the adjustments tab. In particular, being able to somehow save my weapons/armor that I created for my characters would be great. In addition, being able to get some of the adjustments back that were present in the Playtest and in Starfinder would be great, chiefly being able to directly adjust the number of selections allowed in table, most especially feats.

The custom stuff we have now needs to be expanded upon. The goal is to have a wide assortment of abilities/effects that can be chosen from and assembled to make whatever custom item you want. We've started down that path, but we still have more work to do. Ideally, the vast majority of those abilities/effects will have the associated logic baked into them, which avoids the need to apply lots of adjustments. The only time manual adjustments should be needed is when the effect doesn't exist in the library of premade stuff we provide.

Sharing your creations with the players is absolutely something we'll be addressing soon. I can't go into details yet, but there's what I think is a very cool feature coming up in the next couple months.

HLC's editor makes it possible for users to add whatever they want. Unfortunately, that's a huge can of worms in a shared web environment, so we haven't ventured there yet. It's not just a matter of all the complications of supporting full editing. It's also the fact that we have to lock things down to guarantee users can't negatively impact the performance of the shared resource for others. It would be trivial today to simply write a three-line script that goes into an infinite loop, and there are a zillion different ways users could inadvertently (or intentionally) get themselves into a situation where everyone else is screwed. Until we can fully safeguard against that, full-blown editing is a non-starter. Is it something I'd love to support? Heck yeah! Is it realistic in the near term? Sadly, no.

I wasn't aware that there were adjustments in the Playtest that are not present now. And the list of adjustments is ripe for additions. If there are particular ones you think are most important, let us know for when we prioritize this stuff.

Originally Posted by magpi

Just as a side note, I was one of the people who was pretty skeptical of HLO coming from HLC for years, but more and more I see you all improving and adding new stuff. I am very excited to see where HLO keeps going, while it has it's flaws, it is quickly becoming a really great tool to make my life as a forever GM easier!

Thanks! We're working hard to make it a great tool, and things are finally starting to come together in that regard.

[Dragnmoon]

Originally Posted by rob

Buffs and whatnot have cascading impact on the character, which requires it go through the engine (on the server) to apply all those cascading effects. Consequently, the best we could do is allow you to just flag that it's on. All calculations would have to be done locally by the user, just like with a printed character sheet.

That makes the offline mode significantly less useful and really no different then just printing it out. I am not even sure what is the point of putting any effort in it then. How is that any different then me opening up a PDF of the character sheet?

I was hoping for something more inline with the Herolabs app on iPad.

A separate program that can read the data and do the things you need to do while playing a game.

[rob]

Originally Posted by Dragnmoon

That makes the offline mode significantly less useful and really no different then just printing it out. I am not even sure what is the point of putting any effort in it then. How is that any different then me opening up a PDF of the character sheet?

Everything is in the same, familiar place. Adaptive layout to different screen sizes. Ability to view the details of each feat/ability/item/weapon/etc. Various other conveniences that aren't afforded by a PDF character sheet.

Originally Posted by Dragnmoon

I was hoping for something more inline with the Herolabs app on iPad.

A separate program that can read the data and do the things you need to do while playing a game.

In other words, you want us to rewrite 70% of the application using a different platform model. Unfortunately, that isn't a viable option for the exact same reasons I already outlined earlier in this thread.

[Dragnmoon]

To me it still sounds like a waste of resources. Your description may be poor, but I can do all those things on a PDF other then layout of screen sizes. It seems it's main point is for phones.

I will have to rethink my subscription because I was hoping for those abilities on off line mode. After going to a convention with poor cell service and no wifi your program was totally useless and the offline mode will not do what I need it to do.

I have to decide for myself if the program is worth it as just a character generator. Especially with the higher costs then you had with the HeroLabs Classic Model.

[WatersLethe]

If HLO could output a fillable PDF with some auto-calculator functions, that itself could be a huge deal. Especially if it was better laid out than the current sheet.

[Duggan]

As someone who has messed with using the Authoring Kit to implement systems, I empathize with Rob's position. There are a lot of interconnected parts, and it's difficult to mark some of them to apply to an offline sheet without giving away the whole farm. That said, hopefully they can find a way of doing a very generic "if this condition is checked, subtract this value from this other field" even if it means those simple adjustments won't check for contingencies.

Although, on the flip-side, such simple cases, to me, tend to be so simple that it's easier to just do the math myself than to wonder if the system is doing it right.

[Nightstar]

Hmm, I think I've decided to hold off on renewing my subscription for now... The things I want - HLC style editor, offline mode, custom character sheets, integration with VTT - aren't available yet and might not be for a long time.

I really have less of a desire for an interactive character sheet I can use while gaming, and want more of a character builder that I can use my own house rules with, make sure I've added all modifiers correctly, does the math for me, and can import into a VTT so I don't have to reenter the character from scratch (aka everything HLC did, just with an added app like Apple users had access to).

Until HLO can do this, I don't see the need for it in my gaming life. I appreciate all the work that has gone into HLO, and how Rob is personally interacting with us:that shows a dedication to the fan base. It just feels HLO is going a different direction (virtual online character sheet) than what I want.