Is Hero Lab Online worth it?

[rob]

Originally Posted by Duggan

That said, hopefully they can find a way of doing a very generic "if this condition is checked, subtract this value from this other field" even if it means those simple adjustments won't check for contingencies.

Although, on the flip-side, such simple cases, to me, tend to be so simple that it's easier to just do the math myself than to wonder if the system is doing it right.

It's not just checking for contingencies. It's all the cascading implications. The classic examples is Barbarian Rage from PF1. Boosts to some attributes and minuses on other attributes have ripple effects throughout the character, sometimes in unexpected ways to the player. Those require the character to be fully reevaluated through the engine to properly reflect the effects everywhere.

If we're not going to things fully, then your second point about it probably being easier to just do yourself becomes reality. If we only do it partially, some users will find it "good enough" while others will decry us for doing an incomplete job. It's a no-win situation going down that path unless we can do it fully. And fully requires the engine to be utilized.

[rob]

Originally Posted by Nightstar

Hmm, I think I've decided to hold off on renewing my subscription for now... The things I want - HLC style editor, offline mode, custom character sheets, integration with VTT - aren't available yet and might not be for a long time.

HLC and the apparently now abandoned PCGen were the only tools I can remember supporting flexible, custom content creation. We're bringing that to HLO via a different approach that isn't complete yet, but finding an alternative tool with that capability will be a very limiting requirement.

If offline mode is a sticking point, you absolutely got us there. Same with the custom character sheets that accompany an offline usage model. Much of the world is going online for everything, and that's the path we've chosen, too. But I understand that's not a path everyone embraces at this point.

Now that the rewrite is complete, integration with VTTs is not hard. However, it will require coordination with the VTT vendors like we did before. That required a lot of time to accomplish when we did it for HLC, and I expect it to be a similar effort with HLO. So I don't expect anything to happen quickly on that front, unless the VTT vendors are highly motivated to jump on it immediately.

With Campaign Theater as the tip of the spear, we're focused well beyond just an "interactive character sheet". The goal is to leverage the connectedness of the internet between the players and GM. Yes, we'll still be implementing all the standard character creation stuff (that's foundational to the product), but you'll be seeing a lot of new features centered on the gaming GROUP instead of the gaming individual in the months ahead.

[thaX]

Is there some sort of limit that prevents the App from putting the information of the character into the PDF of the Character Sheet, either from the book or your own creation at Lone Wolf?

The current print out is much improved, but still not what is needed for Offline Use, and the PFS info is still missing.

[Dragnmoon]

Originally Posted by rob

If offline mode is a sticking point, you absolutely got us there. Same with the custom character sheets that accompany an offline usage model. Much of the world is going online for everything, and that's the path we've chosen, too. But I understand that's not a path everyone embraces at this point.

I think part of the problem is part of your audience.

There are at least some of us that want to use this at conventions, and even now conventions have a tendency to have horrible or no wifi and be at locations with bad cell service due to being in the middle of a building.

Another situation is a lot of people are now playing not at home but at stores, and not all stores offer wifi or at least good wifi. I tried using the wifi at the location I play at but because it is so bad keeping connected to HLO was a problem. Luckily I have the data to use my cell as a hotspot there but not everyone has that luxury.

So far every convention I have been to that has been the case and it has been frustrating to try to get HLO to work in those situations.

Much of the world may be going online for everything I personally just don't think this type of program works as well there do to the situations your players can find themselves in.

So for me your company putting in the effort to build an app that can take the data from HLO and use it offline to keep track of the things I need to during a game is absolutely worth your time, so you telling me that is a lot of work my answer to that is to well get to it.

Edit: I would like to add that I would say for myself currently about 90% of my gaming I can use HLO, but that 10% is so frustrating . Others may have different percentages there.

[rob]

Originally Posted by thaX

Is there some sort of limit that prevents the App from putting the information of the character into the PDF of the Character Sheet, either from the book or your own creation at Lone Wolf?

The current print out is much improved, but still not what is needed for Offline Use, and the PFS info is still missing.

Sorry, but I don't understand your question. What limits are you referring to?

Since character sheet output is a whole space of its own, I have created separate threads for each game system to solicit specific suggestions for what information everyone would like to see added, reorganized, etc.

The PFS information is definitely on our punch list and should be added relatively soon. It's just competing with a hundred other "priority" tasks. And the just-completed GMG was a TON of work that took much longer than we had anticipated.

[Dragnmoon]

Originally Posted by rob

Sorry, but I don't understand your question. What limits are you referring to?

Since character sheet output is a whole space of its own, I have created separate threads for each game system to solicit specific suggestions for what information everyone would like to see added, reorganized, etc.

The PFS information is definitely on our punch list and should be added relatively soon. It's just competing with a hundred other "priority" tasks. And the just-completed GMG was a TON of work that took much longer than we had anticipated.

Lol Already reported this but unsure if you guys are going to actually remove this, but please oh please remove this from every custom boon, it makes the printout way to long!..

PLEASE NOTE
This will allow you to create a new boon, and customize its
settings. Start by adding this boon.
Once you have added the boon, click on the Custom Boon item
that is created to open its details form. Then, go through the
settings and fill in the appropriate information - enter the name,
check whether it is currently slotted, set the boon slot type (or leave
this blank if it's an untyped boon, which is the case for many boons
added through scenarios), and if the boon has any traits, set those
in the trait drop-downs.
If this is a boon that has checkboxes, and changes its behavior as
more are checked, the next option will allow you to record how
many are currently checked. If this boon can only be used a
number of times in a day, or a number of times a scenario, or has
a limited number of uses before it is expended, select the time
period in "Usage Period" and then set the number in the next box.
For example, for a boon that can be used once per scenario, select
"/scenario" and set 1 use. For a boon that has three checkboxes,
requires a box to be checked each time it is used, and cannot be
used once the boxes are all checked, select "Used Up" as the
Usage Period, and 3 for the number of uses allowed. Or for a
boon that is single use, and expended once used, set "Used Up"
and 1 use.

[rob]

Originally Posted by Dragnmoon

So for me your company putting in the effort to build an app that can take the data from HLO and use it offline to keep track of the things I need to during a game is absolutely worth your time, so you telling me that is a lot of work my answer to that is to well get to it.

If only it were that simple. To do what you're asking would basically entail a complete rewrite of the entire product, from the ground up, including the entire engine, to host it on a cross-platform toolkit (e.g. Unity). Alternately we could enlist an army of developers to write native apps on every platform so we can continue using the existing engine - and I'm pretty sure that approach wouldn't even work on some platforms. Both of those approaches would take millions of dollars of investment (ignoring the time involved), so they simply aren't viable options for a tiny outfit like us.

If you know someone who'd be interested in funding a different approach, please have them contact me. Otherwise, a web-based interface accessing the existing C++ engine hosted on compute-based servers is the model that we can reasonably achieve with the limited resources we have available.

[rob]

Originally Posted by Dragnmoon

Lol Already reported this but unsure if you guys are going to actually remove this, but please oh please remove this from every custom boon, it makes the printout way to long!..

Yikes! I'll talk to the guys right away. That's ridiculous!

[Nightstar]

With what is going on in the world now, I really wish HLO would integrate with VTTs, like HLC does. Any chance this might become a higher priority now?

It'd be great if it did, or if PF2 and SF were brought to HLC. This, plus having the ability to sync HLC with HLO would be awesome. Create a character in one, be able to open it in the other.

[rob]

Originally Posted by Nightstar

With what is going on in the world now, I really wish HLO would integrate with VTTs, like HLC does. Any chance this might become a higher priority now?

Yes, the priority got boosted, but we still have some other items that are well underway and have to completed before we switch gears like that. And there's also the need for the VTT side to import what we export once we get that all in place. So it's not gonna be anything immediate. But it will likely be done a good bit sooner than previously planned...