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aetherknight at yahoo.co.
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Old October 28th, 2002, 01:09 AM
OK, finally getting round to full-on testing of my Raw Deal files!
Woooo! There's a rule that is still causing me grief, though, so
I'll elaborate, and see if anyone can help!

I have a Superstar card (character) in deck2, and two playdecks:
deck1 (Arsenal) and deck3 (Backlash). You may only have one
Superstar card in play.

A Superstar has a logo which appears on the Superstar card. Certain
cards in the playdecks can also carry superstar logos, which are
special cards that can be played by that character. I want to check
that if a user selects such a card, that they have picked a card
that is valid for play by that Superstar. The solution that Rob
suggested (below) works great if there is only one logo on the card.

HOWEVER - certain cards carry more than one logo. With the current
solution, you get one validation failure for each additional symbol
on each card.

The basic test for validity is:
"If a card in the playdecks has logos on it, does one of those logos
match the logo on the character card?"

What am I missing? Can anyone help?

Regards,

Steve.

--- In cardvault@y..., Rob Bowes <rob@w...> wrote:
> To make this work, I need to make sure you've got things
structured the
> same way I'm thinking, so I'm going to start with steps that you
may
> already have in place from your description. Then I'll build on
that to
> reach the full solution. I'm going to use a single character as an
example,
> and you can extrapolate this to other characters, as needed.
>
> 1. Start with a tag group named "character" and create a tag for
each
> character. For this example, let's use the name "Fred". So define
the tag
> group and a tag of "Fred" within it.
>
> 2. Assign the "character.Fred" tag to the Fred character card.
>
> 3. Define another tag group named "ischar" and create a tag for
each
> character. We'll use this to identify which cards require which
characters.
> So define the tag group and add a tag of "Fred" within it.
>
> 4. Assign the "ischar.Fred" tag to all cards that require the Fred
> character to be in the deck.
>
> Everything is in place that we need. Now let's look at the rule
you need to
> write...
>
> 1. The rule needs to span multiple cards, so you have to write a
rule with
> deck scoping.
>
> 2. Since you need to verify that the character card is present for
any
> cards requiring the character, you'll have to write a separate
rule for
> each character - i.e. one rule to check for Fred, another for
George, etc.
>
> 3. Since we have a separate rule for each character, the rule
needs to be
> declared valid if there are no cards requiring that character.
This is done
> with the term "card:ischar.Fred = 0". So we'll start each rule
with a first
> term of "card:ischar.Fred = 0" and use an OR ('|') to combine it
with the
> rest of the rule. This way, the rest of the rule will be ignored
if there
> are no cards requiring Fred.
>
> 4. If our rule gets past the first term, then we know there is at
least one
> card that requires our character. So the next part is to verify
the
> character is present. This done with the term "card:character.Fred
> 0".
>
> 5. Putting it all together, our rule is given below. This rule
verifies
> that we have at least one Fred card when there are any cards
present that
> require Fred.
> (card:ischar.Fred = 0) | (card:character.Fred > 0)
>
> 6. Verifying separately that a card is doesn't have any character
> requirements is unnecessary with the above rule. If a card has no
character
> requirements, it will satisfy the first term of each rule and be
declared
> valid for each rule.
>
> 7. The last factor to address is the actual scope of the deck
rule. Since
> you have two play decks, you either have to assign the rule a
scope of
> "all" OR you have to define the rule twice, with each instance of
the rule
> applying to a separate deck. However, given your description of
things, you
> should be fine with simply using a single rule with "all" scope.
>
> Now that everything is figured out, the complete rule entry within
the data
> file will look something like this:
> <rule id="isFred" scope="all"
> message="One or more cards require Fred" summary="Fred needed">
> <![CDATA[
> (card:ischar.Fred = 0) | (card:character.Fred > 0)
> ]]>
> </rule>
>
> I'm quite curious what prompted the placement of the character
card in its
> own separate deck. Was it done in an effort to make the above
rules work
> correctly? If so, then it should not be necessary and you can have
the
> character card placed into a deck with the rest of the cards. If
not,
> please explain. There are SO many different games, each with its
own
> assortment of bizarre game mechanics, and I'm always looking to
learn more
> about those mechanics so that future releases of Card Vault can
better
> support them. :-)
>
> Hope all this helps,
> Rob
>
>
> At 03:15 PM 10/3/2002 +0000, you wrote:
> >I've got a rule that I'm trying to put together, which goes a
little
> >like this:
> >
> >You have a character card, and two play decks. There are certain
> >cards in those decks which are flagged as only being played by
> >specific character(s).
> >
> >Now, I've got the character card set up as existing in its own
deck,
> >separate from the play decks, and I've got a tag group set up to
> >hold the characters that can use a specific card (the character
card
> >holds a single value in that tag group).
> >
> >How can I check that all the cards in the play decks are either
non-
> >character based, or have the required character attribution?
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
--------
> Rob Bowes (rob@w...) (559) 658-6995
> Lone Wolf Development
www.wolflair.com


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  #1 Reply With Quote
demandred at skrill.org
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Posts: n/a

Old October 28th, 2002, 05:17 PM
At 10:09 AM 10/28/2002 +0000, you wrote:

>I have a Superstar card (character) in deck2, and two playdecks:
>deck1 (Arsenal) and deck3 (Backlash). You may only have one
>Superstar card in play.
>
>A Superstar has a logo which appears on the Superstar card. Certain
>cards in the playdecks can also carry superstar logos, which are
>special cards that can be played by that character. I want to check
>that if a user selects such a card, that they have picked a card
>that is valid for play by that Superstar. The solution that Rob
>suggested (below) works great if there is only one logo on the card.
>
>HOWEVER - certain cards carry more than one logo. With the current
>solution, you get one validation failure for each additional symbol
>on each card.
>
>The basic test for validity is:
>"If a card in the playdecks has logos on it, does one of those logos
>match the logo on the character card?"
>
>What am I missing? Can anyone help?

I can think of a bad, messy way to do it, which would work but require a
lot of book-keeping.

If a card has logos for 'Jim' and 'Bob', give it the tag 'JimBob' instead
of both 'Jim' and 'Bob'. Then, write another rule to make sure that if
cards with 'JimBob' are present, so is either Jim or Bob.

Like I said, it's messy...


--
Colen McAlister, demandred@skrill.org
http://www.incompetence-central.co.uk | http://www.skrill.org/
"It's time to toss the dice"


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  #2 Reply With Quote
rob
Senior Member
Lone Wolf Staff
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 7,922

Old October 29th, 2002, 03:47 AM
Unfortunately, there's no GOOD way to solve this in V1.0. There are some
new engine features planned for V1.1 that will make this easy, but they
aren't present yet. :-(

Until V1.1 comes out, you have only two choices that I can think off. The
first is the one that Colen suggested, which is VERY messy (as Colen points
out). The second option is to use the validation rule sets. If you have a
separate rule set for each Superstar, then the user can select which
Superstar to validate against. You can then assign the Fred rules to only
apply within the Fred rule set, and so on for each of the various
Superstars. Rules that are common to all Superstars would be defined in
their own rule set, and then each of the Superstar rule sets would inherit
from the basic rule set.

Hope this helps,
Rob


At 10:09 AM 10/28/2002 +0000, you wrote:
>OK, finally getting round to full-on testing of my Raw Deal files!
>Woooo! There's a rule that is still causing me grief, though, so
>I'll elaborate, and see if anyone can help!
>
>I have a Superstar card (character) in deck2, and two playdecks:
>deck1 (Arsenal) and deck3 (Backlash). You may only have one
>Superstar card in play.
>
>A Superstar has a logo which appears on the Superstar card. Certain
>cards in the playdecks can also carry superstar logos, which are
>special cards that can be played by that character. I want to check
>that if a user selects such a card, that they have picked a card
>that is valid for play by that Superstar. The solution that Rob
>suggested (below) works great if there is only one logo on the card.
>
>HOWEVER - certain cards carry more than one logo. With the current
>solution, you get one validation failure for each additional symbol
>on each card.
>
>The basic test for validity is:
>"If a card in the playdecks has logos on it, does one of those logos
>match the logo on the character card?"
>
>What am I missing? Can anyone help?
>
>Regards,
>
>Steve.


---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rob Bowes (rob@wolflair.com) (559) 658-6995
Lone Wolf Development www.wolflair.com


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rob is offline   #3 Reply With Quote
aetherknight at yahoo.co.
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Old October 29th, 2002, 05:53 AM
Hokay! I think I'll choose...... Door Number 2, Rob!!

I know there's no timescale in place for 1.1 yet, but I'm now
definitely looking forward to it, if it'll solve this thorny issue
o' mine!!

Just a quick check though - I take it that there are no issues
around the ruleset strategy? I think my plan now is going to be that
I'll write the per-character rulesets, deprecate them to
visible="no" once 1.1 is out and the new rules are in place, then
remove them from the .def after a while to 'tidy up'. I know that if
Card Vault doesn't find a ruleset, then it defaults to the norm -
will that be the case in ongoing versions?

Regards,

Steve!

--- In cardvault@y..., Rob Bowes <rob@w...> wrote:
> Unfortunately, there's no GOOD way to solve this in V1.0. There
are some
> new engine features planned for V1.1 that will make this easy, but
they
> aren't present yet. :-(
>
> Until V1.1 comes out, you have only two choices that I can think
off. The
> first is the one that Colen suggested, which is VERY messy (as
Colen points
> out). The second option is to use the validation rule sets. If you
have a
> separate rule set for each Superstar, then the user can select
which
> Superstar to validate against. You can then assign the Fred rules
to only
> apply within the Fred rule set, and so on for each of the various
> Superstars. Rules that are common to all Superstars would be
defined in
> their own rule set, and then each of the Superstar rule sets would
inherit
> from the basic rule set.
>
> Hope this helps,
> Rob
>
>
> At 10:09 AM 10/28/2002 +0000, you wrote:
> >OK, finally getting round to full-on testing of my Raw Deal files!
> >Woooo! There's a rule that is still causing me grief, though, so
> >I'll elaborate, and see if anyone can help!
> >
> >I have a Superstar card (character) in deck2, and two playdecks:
> >deck1 (Arsenal) and deck3 (Backlash). You may only have one
> >Superstar card in play.
> >
> >A Superstar has a logo which appears on the Superstar card.
Certain
> >cards in the playdecks can also carry superstar logos, which are
> >special cards that can be played by that character. I want to
check
> >that if a user selects such a card, that they have picked a card
> >that is valid for play by that Superstar. The solution that Rob
> >suggested (below) works great if there is only one logo on the
card.
> >
> >HOWEVER - certain cards carry more than one logo. With the current
> >solution, you get one validation failure for each additional
symbol
> >on each card.
> >
> >The basic test for validity is:
> >"If a card in the playdecks has logos on it, does one of those
logos
> >match the logo on the character card?"
> >
> >What am I missing? Can anyone help?
> >
> >Regards,
> >
> >Steve.
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
--------
> Rob Bowes (rob@w...) (559) 658-6995
> Lone Wolf Development
www.wolflair.com


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  #4 Reply With Quote
rob
Senior Member
Lone Wolf Staff
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 7,922

Old October 29th, 2002, 12:23 PM
The target for V1.1 is February 2003. We're sifting through the hundreds of
items on the todo list to cull out the feature set for V1.1 right now, but
some items have already been decided upon.

Your idea for the ruleset handling is sound. The deprecation if a ruleset
is missing is intended to be standard behavior for CV.

Thanks, Rob


At 02:31 PM 10/29/2002 +0000, you wrote:
>Hokay! I think I'll choose...... Door Number 2, Rob!!
>
>I know there's no timescale in place for 1.1 yet, but I'm now
>definitely looking forward to it, if it'll solve this thorny issue
>o' mine!!
>
>Just a quick check though - I take it that there are no issues
>around the ruleset strategy? I think my plan now is going to be that
>I'll write the per-character rulesets, deprecate them to
>visible="no" once 1.1 is out and the new rules are in place, then
>remove them from the .def after a while to 'tidy up'. I know that if
>Card Vault doesn't find a ruleset, then it defaults to the norm -
>will that be the case in ongoing versions?
>
>Regards,
>
>Steve!


---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rob Bowes (rob@wolflair.com) (559) 658-6995
Lone Wolf Development www.wolflair.com


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