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aetherknight at yahoo.co.
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Old October 3rd, 2002, 08:16 AM
I've got a rule that I'm trying to put together, which goes a little
like this:

You have a character card, and two play decks. There are certain
cards in those decks which are flagged as only being played by
specific character(s).

Now, I've got the character card set up as existing in its own deck,
separate from the play decks, and I've got a tag group set up to
hold the characters that can use a specific card (the character card
holds a single value in that tag group).

How can I check that all the cards in the play decks are either non-
character based, or have the required character attribution?


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  #1 Reply With Quote
kuni_tetsu at yahoo.com
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Old October 3rd, 2002, 01:58 PM
--- Steve Ironside <aetherknight@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> I've got a rule that I'm trying to put together, which goes a little
> like this:

I will warn you right now that rules will likely make your head hurt

> You have a character card, and two play decks. There are certain
> cards in those decks which are flagged as only being played by
> specific character(s).
>
> Now, I've got the character card set up as existing in its own deck,
> separate from the play decks, and I've got a tag group set up to
> hold the characters that can use a specific card (the character card
> holds a single value in that tag group).
>
> How can I check that all the cards in the play decks are either non-
> character based, or have the required character attribution?

You will have to use a rule that spans multiple decks. Take a look at the rules
for the L5R data set... I had to span multiple decks there for some rules.


=====
---

Kuni Tetsu
Clan War rules guy
Moderator of ClanWar-l

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  #2 Reply With Quote
rob
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Lone Wolf Staff
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 7,929

Old October 3rd, 2002, 03:14 PM
To make this work, I need to make sure you've got things structured the
same way I'm thinking, so I'm going to start with steps that you may
already have in place from your description. Then I'll build on that to
reach the full solution. I'm going to use a single character as an example,
and you can extrapolate this to other characters, as needed.

1. Start with a tag group named "character" and create a tag for each
character. For this example, let's use the name "Fred". So define the tag
group and a tag of "Fred" within it.

2. Assign the "character.Fred" tag to the Fred character card.

3. Define another tag group named "ischar" and create a tag for each
character. We'll use this to identify which cards require which characters.
So define the tag group and add a tag of "Fred" within it.

4. Assign the "ischar.Fred" tag to all cards that require the Fred
character to be in the deck.

Everything is in place that we need. Now let's look at the rule you need to
write...

1. The rule needs to span multiple cards, so you have to write a rule with
deck scoping.

2. Since you need to verify that the character card is present for any
cards requiring the character, you'll have to write a separate rule for
each character - i.e. one rule to check for Fred, another for George, etc.

3. Since we have a separate rule for each character, the rule needs to be
declared valid if there are no cards requiring that character. This is done
with the term "card:ischar.Fred = 0". So we'll start each rule with a first
term of "card:ischar.Fred = 0" and use an OR ('|') to combine it with the
rest of the rule. This way, the rest of the rule will be ignored if there
are no cards requiring Fred.

4. If our rule gets past the first term, then we know there is at least one
card that requires our character. So the next part is to verify the
character is present. This done with the term "card:character.Fred > 0".

5. Putting it all together, our rule is given below. This rule verifies
that we have at least one Fred card when there are any cards present that
require Fred.
(card:ischar.Fred = 0) | (card:character.Fred > 0)

6. Verifying separately that a card is doesn't have any character
requirements is unnecessary with the above rule. If a card has no character
requirements, it will satisfy the first term of each rule and be declared
valid for each rule.

7. The last factor to address is the actual scope of the deck rule. Since
you have two play decks, you either have to assign the rule a scope of
"all" OR you have to define the rule twice, with each instance of the rule
applying to a separate deck. However, given your description of things, you
should be fine with simply using a single rule with "all" scope.

Now that everything is figured out, the complete rule entry within the data
file will look something like this:
<rule id="isFred" scope="all"
message="One or more cards require Fred" summary="Fred needed">
<![CDATA[
(card:ischar.Fred = 0) | (card:character.Fred > 0)
]]>
</rule>

I'm quite curious what prompted the placement of the character card in its
own separate deck. Was it done in an effort to make the above rules work
correctly? If so, then it should not be necessary and you can have the
character card placed into a deck with the rest of the cards. If not,
please explain. There are SO many different games, each with its own
assortment of bizarre game mechanics, and I'm always looking to learn more
about those mechanics so that future releases of Card Vault can better
support them. :-)

Hope all this helps,
Rob


At 03:15 PM 10/3/2002 +0000, you wrote:
>I've got a rule that I'm trying to put together, which goes a little
>like this:
>
>You have a character card, and two play decks. There are certain
>cards in those decks which are flagged as only being played by
>specific character(s).
>
>Now, I've got the character card set up as existing in its own deck,
>separate from the play decks, and I've got a tag group set up to
>hold the characters that can use a specific card (the character card
>holds a single value in that tag group).
>
>How can I check that all the cards in the play decks are either non-
>character based, or have the required character attribution?


---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rob Bowes (rob@wolflair.com) (559) 658-6995
Lone Wolf Development www.wolflair.com


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rob is offline   #3 Reply With Quote
aetherknight at yahoo.co.
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Old October 4th, 2002, 01:11 AM
Thanks for that, Rob! I was coming at it from the other direction,
so it's no wonder I was getting confused!

The game I'm setting up is Raw Deal - you have your character card,
which gives you a note of your starting hand size, superstar value
(determines who plays first), and a superstar ability (effect text).
This is completely different from all the other cards in the game,
so I put it into a seperate deck to achieve two results:
1. Superstar cards cannot physically be added to any of the play
decks, since I can use the deck attribute on the card element;
2. When seperate defined per-deck views come along, then I'm hoping
that I can display this entirely different information more sensibly
to the player (I've got it set up as extra data as well as invisible
tag groups at the moment).

Steve!

--- In cardvault@y..., Rob Bowes <rob@w...> wrote:
> To make this work, I need to make sure you've got things
structured the
> same way I'm thinking, so I'm going to start with steps that you
may
> already have in place from your description. Then I'll build on
that to
> reach the full solution. I'm going to use a single character as an
example,
> and you can extrapolate this to other characters, as needed.
>
> 1. Start with a tag group named "character" and create a tag for
each
> character. For this example, let's use the name "Fred". So define
the tag
> group and a tag of "Fred" within it.
>
> 2. Assign the "character.Fred" tag to the Fred character card.
>
> 3. Define another tag group named "ischar" and create a tag for
each
> character. We'll use this to identify which cards require which
characters.
> So define the tag group and add a tag of "Fred" within it.
>
> 4. Assign the "ischar.Fred" tag to all cards that require the Fred
> character to be in the deck.
>
> Everything is in place that we need. Now let's look at the rule
you need to
> write...
>
> 1. The rule needs to span multiple cards, so you have to write a
rule with
> deck scoping.
>
> 2. Since you need to verify that the character card is present for
any
> cards requiring the character, you'll have to write a separate
rule for
> each character - i.e. one rule to check for Fred, another for
George, etc.
>
> 3. Since we have a separate rule for each character, the rule
needs to be
> declared valid if there are no cards requiring that character.
This is done
> with the term "card:ischar.Fred = 0". So we'll start each rule
with a first
> term of "card:ischar.Fred = 0" and use an OR ('|') to combine it
with the
> rest of the rule. This way, the rest of the rule will be ignored
if there
> are no cards requiring Fred.
>
> 4. If our rule gets past the first term, then we know there is at
least one
> card that requires our character. So the next part is to verify
the
> character is present. This done with the term "card:character.Fred
> 0".
>
> 5. Putting it all together, our rule is given below. This rule
verifies
> that we have at least one Fred card when there are any cards
present that
> require Fred.
> (card:ischar.Fred = 0) | (card:character.Fred > 0)
>
> 6. Verifying separately that a card is doesn't have any character
> requirements is unnecessary with the above rule. If a card has no
character
> requirements, it will satisfy the first term of each rule and be
declared
> valid for each rule.
>
> 7. The last factor to address is the actual scope of the deck
rule. Since
> you have two play decks, you either have to assign the rule a
scope of
> "all" OR you have to define the rule twice, with each instance of
the rule
> applying to a separate deck. However, given your description of
things, you
> should be fine with simply using a single rule with "all" scope.
>
> Now that everything is figured out, the complete rule entry within
the data
> file will look something like this:
> <rule id="isFred" scope="all"
> message="One or more cards require Fred" summary="Fred needed">
> <![CDATA[
> (card:ischar.Fred = 0) | (card:character.Fred > 0)
> ]]>
> </rule>
>
> I'm quite curious what prompted the placement of the character
card in its
> own separate deck. Was it done in an effort to make the above
rules work
> correctly? If so, then it should not be necessary and you can have
the
> character card placed into a deck with the rest of the cards. If
not,
> please explain. There are SO many different games, each with its
own
> assortment of bizarre game mechanics, and I'm always looking to
learn more
> about those mechanics so that future releases of Card Vault can
better
> support them. :-)
>
> Hope all this helps,
> Rob
>
>
> At 03:15 PM 10/3/2002 +0000, you wrote:
> >I've got a rule that I'm trying to put together, which goes a
little
> >like this:
> >
> >You have a character card, and two play decks. There are certain
> >cards in those decks which are flagged as only being played by
> >specific character(s).
> >
> >Now, I've got the character card set up as existing in its own
deck,
> >separate from the play decks, and I've got a tag group set up to
> >hold the characters that can use a specific card (the character
card
> >holds a single value in that tag group).
> >
> >How can I check that all the cards in the play decks are either
non-
> >character based, or have the required character attribution?
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
--------
> Rob Bowes (rob@w...) (559) 658-6995
> Lone Wolf Development
www.wolflair.com


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  #4 Reply With Quote
rob
Senior Member
Lone Wolf Staff
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 7,929

Old October 6th, 2002, 03:18 PM
Sounds like a reasonable strategy. Thanks for the info on Raw Deal. I've
never seen it played, so I wasn't aware of its special behaviors.

Thanks, Rob


At 08:11 AM 10/4/2002 +0000, you wrote:
>Thanks for that, Rob! I was coming at it from the other direction,
>so it's no wonder I was getting confused!
>
>The game I'm setting up is Raw Deal - you have your character card,
>which gives you a note of your starting hand size, superstar value
>(determines who plays first), and a superstar ability (effect text).
>This is completely different from all the other cards in the game,
>so I put it into a seperate deck to achieve two results:
>1. Superstar cards cannot physically be added to any of the play
>decks, since I can use the deck attribute on the card element;
>2. When seperate defined per-deck views come along, then I'm hoping
>that I can display this entirely different information more sensibly
>to the player (I've got it set up as extra data as well as invisible
>tag groups at the moment).
>
>Steve!


---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rob Bowes (rob@wolflair.com) (559) 658-6995
Lone Wolf Development www.wolflair.com


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rob is offline   #5 Reply With Quote
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