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dungeonguru
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Old August 6th, 2018, 12:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toblakai View Post
Not censoring. FB is a marketing tool. Would you call it censorship if someone wrote a "review" on a bill board and the bill board ad was replaced?
That's a mixed and bad example. You should be thinking more about Yelp! or maybe the BBB (better busines bureau) or bad amazon reviews. The only negative reviews that should be deleted are the ones that are obviously faked or sourced from a competitor. Otherwise, the product owner should reply and ask what the problem is and ask for the customer to improve their score or review.

That's called simple public relations and customer service.

Ignoring the customer and deleting negative feedback is just a horrible and unethical way to do business. BJ, Rone and others try to provide feedback when these threads get heated enough, so I'm not accusing LW of being unethical, just giving an example of what I consider to be unethical. BJ took down the "CM Coming in 2016" snipped on the product page based on feedback at one point, which points that we can have a civil dialogue and help both the customer be happy and help LW do better.

My personal opinion is that they could do better with providing updates. I didn't see many updates about anything that happened at GenCon other than some booth info on facebook, I would have liked to see any stories even if it was only to say that one of the LW folks in attendance had a great time at a PF2 playtest or finding a new pub in downtown Indy.

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Jamz
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Old August 6th, 2018, 12:49 PM
I did a quick stop at the LW booth, mostly to look at the HLO for PlayTest (and ended up buying it as it looked pretty complete for Playtest AND it rolls into full PF2 when it comes out, as it's really Early Access)

I did ask the "Content Market" question but taking it all with a grain of salt, all I was told was basically what we all know and that is it's in Paizo's hand and if Paizo doesn't deliver there end by November there would be H-E-Double hockey sticks to pay...

...maybe I should have stopped over at Paizo and see if they needed some free developer help...setting up this integration point isn't rocket science these days...

-Jamz

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Toblakai
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Old August 6th, 2018, 01:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dungeonguru View Post
That's a mixed and bad example. You should be thinking more about Yelp! or maybe the BBB (better busines bureau) or bad amazon reviews. The only negative reviews that should be deleted are the ones that are obviously faked or sourced from a competitor. Otherwise, the product owner should reply and ask what the problem is and ask for the customer to improve their score or review.

That's called simple public relations and customer service.

Ignoring the customer and deleting negative feedback is just a horrible and unethical way to do business. BJ, Rone and others try to provide feedback when these threads get heated enough, so I'm not accusing LW of being unethical, just giving an example of what I consider to be unethical. BJ took down the "CM Coming in 2016" snipped on the product page based on feedback at one point, which points that we can have a civil dialogue and help both the customer be happy and help LW do better.

My personal opinion is that they could do better with providing updates. I didn't see many updates about anything that happened at GenCon other than some booth info on facebook, I would have liked to see any stories even if it was only to say that one of the LW folks in attendance had a great time at a PF2 playtest or finding a new pub in downtown Indy.
Companies routinely remove comments on FB. It is no where near like reviews on Amazon. Amazon could care less if product XYZ got a negative review.

Forums are generally an open discussion area and most companies don't moderate them much, though some do.

FB is marketing platform for businesses. Do you think ABC would allow someone to run adds saying how horrible ABC is?

Here is a guide for companies on how to moderate your FB posts:
Guide
You can hide negative posts so only the poster and the posters friends can see it so probably better than deleting.
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dungeonguru
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Old August 6th, 2018, 02:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toblakai View Post
FB is marketing platform for businesses. Do you think ABC would allow someone to run adds saying how horrible ABC is?
Just because FB allows you to do it doesn't mean it's OK. My microwave allows me to put tin foil and forks in it, but I don't think it's a good idea. Bad ideas eventually come back to hurt you. FB condoned a lot of bad practices, or you could almost say they colluded with bad people and now FB has a lot of negative press they're fighting for allowing people to behave poorly using their services.

ABC and other stations sell their ad time and as a business they also have the right to refuse service. However, they can't remove an ad I buy on NBC or Fox badmouthing them without suing me, which of course being media giants they could and probably would, but then that points out the negativity via public records and could backfire worse than a single bad review running its course or simply being addressed.

DM'ing since 1984's red box. Pretending to slay dragons for a long time before.
SELF-CERTIFIED OLD COOT
The mirror doesn't lie.

Links for Community files:
Changelog for 5e Community Files
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LW Products: Hero Labs Classic
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Toblakai
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Old August 6th, 2018, 02:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dungeonguru View Post
Just because FB allows you to do it doesn't mean it's OK. My microwave allows me to put tin foil and forks in it, but I don't think it's a good idea. Bad ideas eventually come back to hurt you. FB condoned a lot of bad practices, or you could almost say they colluded with bad people and now FB has a lot of negative press they're fighting for allowing people to behave poorly using their services.

ABC and other stations sell their ad time and as a business they also have the right to refuse service. However, they can't remove an ad I buy on NBC or Fox badmouthing them without suing me, which of course being media giants they could and probably would, but then that points out the negativity via public records and could backfire worse than a single bad review running its course or simply being addressed.
Companies put themselves on FB for advertisement. It is "their" page, some businesses only have a FB page and not a website. It is their right to control it and it would be very irresponsible of them to allow negative posts on their site. We can agree to disagree here I guess, but I suspect you will not find many major companies on FB that does not remove/hide posts.
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Asandir
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Old August 6th, 2018, 02:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamz View Post
I did a quick stop at the LW booth, mostly to look at the HLO for PlayTest (and ended up buying it as it looked pretty complete for Playtest AND it rolls into full PF2 when it comes out, as it's really Early Access)

I did ask the "Content Market" question but taking it all with a grain of salt, all I was told was basically what we all know and that is it's in Paizo's hand and if Paizo doesn't deliver there end by November there would be H-E-Double hockey sticks to pay...
Sigh, now November perhaps?

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kbs666
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Old August 6th, 2018, 03:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toblakai View Post
Companies put themselves on FB for advertisement. It is "their" page, some businesses only have a FB page and not a website. It is their right to control it and it would be very irresponsible of them to allow negative posts on their site. We can agree to disagree here I guess, but I suspect you will not find many major companies on FB that does not remove/hide posts.
Every company hides or deletes some posts. Trolling posts, hate speech, foul language, ads, porn. that type of stuff. A company that deletes negative comments is going down a very bad road. Because those frustrate customers will simply go somewhere else and be even angrier. Better to respond and try and find a solution to why they are unhappy. Then later potential customers see a responsive company working to fix problems engaged with their customers. And trust me now a days people know how to use Google and search more than FB before buying stuff. they will find where ever those griping customers go once the comments are deleted from the official FB page.

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Toblakai
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Old August 6th, 2018, 04:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbs666 View Post
Every company hides or deletes some posts. Trolling posts, hate speech, foul language, ads, porn. that type of stuff. A company that deletes negative comments is going down a very bad road. Because those frustrate customers will simply go somewhere else and be even angrier. Better to respond and try and find a solution to why they are unhappy. Then later potential customers see a responsive company working to fix problems engaged with their customers. And trust me now a days people know how to use Google and search more than FB before buying stuff. they will find where ever those griping customers go once the comments are deleted from the official FB page.
This is where hiding the comment is ingenious. The poster does not know it is hidden unless they look for it while in incognito mode.

There are posters on this board that complain about slow roll out of features/etc but they are incredibly negative in the way they do it, if these posts are on facebook they really should be removed.

But if anyone is researching a product to decide whether to purchase it or not they should not go to just the products site for this research (or FB) they should look else where.
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meek75
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Old August 6th, 2018, 04:32 PM
The FB page I frequent is not run by LWD. I'm pretty sure it is a fan made group with 700+ members. BJ is a member and sometimes posts short replies. Also, one option for LWD would be to do better. People are sometimes negative for good reason.
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Toblakai
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Old August 6th, 2018, 05:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by meek75 View Post
The FB page I frequent is not run by LWD. I'm pretty sure it is a fan made group with 700+ members. BJ is a member and sometimes posts short replies. Also, one option for LWD would be to do better. People are sometimes negative for good reason.
This is where you should research a product, independent sites.
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