Lone Wolf Development Forums  

Go Back   Lone Wolf Development Forums > Army Builder Data Files > Warhammer 40,000

Notices

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
muzzyman1981
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 17

Old November 23rd, 2008, 12:41 PM
I'm sorry but I still don't understand your reasoning....

Firstly, we can take Land Raider Redeemers as the Space Wolf FAQ states clearly that we take all VARIANTS as well as the base vehicles listed in the FAQ....now my IQ isn't all that high I'm sure but last I checked the Redeemer is a variant of the base Land Raider. As for you comment to me I am going to quote part of the excerpt from page 127 of the Space Marine Codex:

"Alternatively, you can use the model and rules for a named character to represent a mighty hero of a different Chapter-"

Again I'm not genius but I would tend to say that is pretty definate. That would seem to cover the arguments of being able to use a special/named character in a different Chapter.

"The simple reason you can't take him is because he's not on any of the lists of units that are taken directly from Codex Space Marines in Codex Space Wolves, nor is he listed as an option in any of the units that are listed. You might have a better argument with Telion but, equally, the Scout Squad entry doesn't list him as an option either. "

No, but it does state that we can use ALL the options available to those vehicles AND their variants. Chronus is an option for those vehicles as stated in the Special Rule : Tank Commander. It seems pretty simple. As for the fact the fact he isn't listed as an option for the vehicles, by that line of reasoning NOBODY can take him.

Now before you try to go into the difference of the word option and the word upgrade....we have already done this and by the definition of the word upgrade...the Storm Bolter, Dozer Blade, Extra Armor, etc are all upgrades. So if we can take those upgrades we can take all other upgrades.
muzzyman1981 is offline   #21
harkan
Senior Member
Volunteer Data File Author
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 345

Old November 23rd, 2008, 01:53 PM
ok, we are discussing this in the maintainers group now and will let you know either way.

However, if you want to include him, make two lists - one with all your SW stuff in and the other with Chronus in and have both lists add up to the total amount of points.

One thing I will say - it is not possible to add in every single tweak and the rest that people disagree on in the GW rules base otherwise the lists would be totally unmanageable, take forever to load and compile and cause so much confusion as to be totally unworkable. Once the decision is made it will stand either way until cleared up proplery by a GW FAQ - there is nothing to stop people d/loading AB creator themselves and tweaking the files in any way they want! Also, and this is a big please to try and head things off as we have been down this route so many times before, if people don't agree with the decision which some invariably won't then please don't stamp feet, pull legs off spiders or throw teddies round the room, thanks in advance ....
harkan is offline   #22
muzzyman1981
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 17

Old November 23rd, 2008, 02:15 PM
I have downloaded the ABCreator but it is taking me a long time to even trying to understand how it works to get something set up. I would give it a try if I knew where to start....do I update or start a new Data File? Definition or Extension file?
muzzyman1981 is offline   #23
Grey_Mage
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 7

Old November 23rd, 2008, 03:06 PM
Mr_Rose, Ill note one CAN take redeemers. The space wolf FAQ specificly lists landraiders and all their variants as options for the space wolves. My basis for this ruling is found in the space wolf faq, please read it.
Grey_Mage is offline   #24
muzzyman1981
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 17

Old November 23rd, 2008, 04:42 PM
Ghaz, I ask that you refrain from your childish behavior on the bug report. You constantly are saying something, which I understand is your opinion, but you refuse to find any facts that it is correct...whereas Grey_Mage and myself have provided examples of the same situation in other units profiles to prove our point.

I will attempt to explain it once more....just because it doesn't say it in the vehicle unit profiles does not make it an invalid upgrade as it would be completely invalid for everyone. The Chronus special rule description on page 89 of the Space Marine Codex validates him as an upgrade for vehicles (I say upgrade for vehicles because he cannot be taken for any other type of unit and he is not a stand alone unit. Furthermore, in the profile on page 143 of the Space Marine Codex says he "must be assigned to one tank in the army.", which again validates him as a option for vehicles as he is an optional chocie, or if you prefer an optional upgrade, for the vehicles in the Space Marine army list.

Secondly, if you were to read the Space Wolf FAQ it says that we take all vehicles, variants, and options available in the Space Marine Codex (it also says that we take them from in the Space Wolf Codex, although it does leave out the option part, but to be fair to all we follow the FAQ and take all options from the SM Codex otherwise our vehicles would be unfairly priced compared to SM vehicle choices).

If you continue to argue this issue, instead of debating it like a mature person I will be forced to report your actions and IF you are a maintainer ask that you be removed from such resposibilities as you have shown that you are unwilling to look at all options before making a decision. We do not take childish and un-warranted action very nicely and will respond to such actions with appropriate measures.
muzzyman1981 is offline   #25
cervidal
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 3

Old November 23rd, 2008, 11:51 PM
Who went childish? Cut the threat, You didn't even exist on this forum until this one issue cropped up.

"We do not..." who is this we? You likely lost emotional capital anyone had for your argument the moment you started with your final fit.

You made your point, it's obviously been addressed at ab40k.org, give it a rest.
cervidal is offline   #26
Grey_Mage
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 7

Old November 24th, 2008, 01:47 AM
We doesnt include me, however if anyone has any rules related arguments against this I would still like to hear them as I find this to be an actual game issue. The mods on that other site can do what theyd like, Id just like to be proven wrong if I am.
Grey_Mage is offline   #27
muzzyman1981
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 17

Old November 24th, 2008, 02:33 AM
I can still disagree here until the final ruling is out, and I will continue to make my case. I will accept your other points based upon the technicalities but I have my opinion about one of those statements in the bug report.

My main disagreement now is the fact wether or not he is an HQ choice. If he is an HQ choice then why is he not counted in the amount of HQ choices for the army? What is he counted towards in the army list? If he is not an upgrade or option and is a seperate unit placed in a tank then he must be counted towards a HQ, Elite, Troop or other choice or am I mistaken?
muzzyman1981 is offline   #28
harkan
Senior Member
Volunteer Data File Author
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 345

Old November 24th, 2008, 09:54 AM
Now to close this discussion - the bug report has been set to FAQ required meaning that until it is cleared up properly by GW with a FAQ then the files remain as they stand. The reasons for this have been discussed and I'll copy them across later on for all to see. As to the roster positions - see the daemon entry in C:CSM for a similar situation.

I am also taking the unusual position of locking this thread - this is NOT to mute discussion or remarks or such like, it is because I have no intention of allowing this discussion to continue as it has degraded into name calling and the like. And so everyone knows, Ghaz is a maintainer and one of the team, he helps out with the rules calls and the like. For those who may question his fairness I can tell you now that Ghaz has been researching the topic on numerous forums and other sources to find a precedent to either support or deny the files' stance – that is both views and not just one sided opinions. I will NOT tolerate members of our team getting called names, their judgement or fairness being called into question and such like. The decision has been reached by discussion, looking at similar cases and researching differing PoV on other forums – and both sides of the issue have been looked into.

We have been here numerous times before when people cannot get their way so I am not going to go into the rant I want to – but in this case there is a way to meet the requirement though as has already been mentioned in the thread.
harkan is offline   #29
Closed Thread

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 06:05 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® - Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
wolflair.com copyright ©1998-2016 Lone Wolf Development, Inc. View our Privacy Policy here.