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Maidhc O Casain
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Old February 27th, 2020, 12:11 PM
From the owner's mouth, September 2017:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob
Subject: Why are we seemingly abandoning the desktop?

We’re not. Anyone claiming we are is making significant assumptions that don’t reflect what’s actually occurring.

~~~ Content removed relates only to the choice of the name "Classic," and the (allegedly false) inferences from that name that HLC is being abandoned. ~~~

We’ll be continuing to augment every game system we currently support on Hero Lab Classic. We have new material in the pipeline for Pathfinder, Shadowrun, Call of Cthulhu, and more. All of that material will be appearing in the Hero Lab Classic product. Once we have those game systems ported over to Hero Lab Online, new material will come out for both products. We have no plans to stop supporting those game systems in Hero Lab Classic at any point.
So… strong assertions by Rob that all (then) current HLC game systems will be fully supported. There were also assertions that current HLC systems would be ported to HLO (for a small, one time nominal fee). And yet…
  • One PF1 update since April 2019. That was back in early December, so a full three months ago now.
  • No portage of any HLC game system over to HLO.
  • No released update of the Savage Worlds system, even though a full update to the Adventure Edition ruleset has been written and is just waiting for LW review.
  • No fix for the broken integration between HLC and RealmWorks.
  • I don't play any of the other game systems in HLC (other than FATE, which hasn't been updated by the publisher so doesn't count), so I can't speak to whether any of them are being updated.

And no communication about these things. I've asked here. I've asked in the Savage Worlds threads. I've asked on the Facebook page. I even briefly pirated the HLO thread in hopes that someone from LW would respond. Radio silence.
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Azhrei
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Old February 27th, 2020, 01:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maidhc O Casain View Post
From the owner's mouth, September 2017:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob
We have no plans to stop supporting those game systems in Hero Lab Classic at any point.
It was likely true — they had no plans. But plans change. Clearly.



I said it at the time and I'll say it again: there is no business argument to be made for keeping HLC. From the perspective of the bean counters, it doesn't bring in money every month (like a subscription does). And from the perspective of the CEO (or other company visionary), it's a dead-end because it only works on one type of system (desktop) while a web-based approach can be made mobile much more easily. (It's still a lot of work, but it is easier.)

The next step is turning off the license servers. It's an expense that doesn't make money for them anymore. (My previous comment was that I was installing HLC into a VM and moving my license into it. I've done the first part, but I still need to do the second...)
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Ualaa
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Old February 27th, 2020, 04:41 PM
Once (If ??) HLC content is ported over to HLO, the benefits of Campaign Theater are sufficient that they'll have my subscription.

Probably a bunch of people would be happy adding the features of Campaign Theater to their games.
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Maidhc O Casain
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Old February 27th, 2020, 05:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Azhrei View Post
I said it at the time and I'll say it again: there is no business argument to be made for keeping HLC.
And that has changed… how?… since Rob made that statement? And the promises that I quoted before? Yes, PF2 came out, but by that point there was going to be no further development of HLC anyway, really. That doesn't mean that support (bug fixes, keeping it running smoothly) shouldn't happen.

And further (though this is a Pathfinder thread), the new Savage Worlds update is already coded! CapedCrusader finished it and sent it over to them in October! It's still sitting there, waiting for them to review it and package it up.

Finally, I'm almost as frustrated at the lack of communication as I am at the lack of updates. Rob said that LoneWolf would continue to support HLC. He said it in no uncertain terms, with no caveats or conditions (see my quote below). If he changes course on that, I'm naturally upset. But if that's what he's doing he should at least step up and say it, with the same level of certainty and lack of equivocation. If he still plans to support these platforms (HLC and RW) - and I sincerely hope that he does! Not further develop but support with bug fixes and keep them running - he should come on and say that again, and then do it.

As a manager of a business, I can promise you that telling your existing, loyal customers you'll do something and then not following through is definitely not a good business model. Especially if you also don't communicate with them about not following through.
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alientude
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Old February 27th, 2020, 07:04 PM
Shades of Realm Works...
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Senko
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Old February 28th, 2020, 10:22 PM
Considering how much I've spent on classic if that's not going to be ported over I've no interest in changing. I'm not interested in PF 2nd edition so there's currently no motivation to pay for it. Not counting the times I'm offline and want to use the program.
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bkbradburn
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Old February 29th, 2020, 04:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by taks View Post
I just want the other half of Tyrant's Grasp released. We start book 4 next week.
Same here. I guess the support is dead.
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Azhrei
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Old February 29th, 2020, 09:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maidhc O Casain View Post
And that has changed… how?… since Rob made that statement?
My point was simply that Rob was sincere when he said there were no plans to drop HLC. In other words, I believe that he meant what he said when he said it. But I think the tides have turned.

Supporting HLC is a drain on resources with little or no payback. LW is pushing hard for people to subscribe to HLO so that they have a constant revenue stream. But supporting HLC costs them money and makes them very little in return.

I'm not disputing your attitude in regards to managing a business and what the proper approach is when dealing with customers. (I also run my own business. And if I tell a client that "such and such isn't going away", you can bet that I'm going to hedge my statement by saying, "no plans at this time" or "for the foreseeable future". I particularly like that latter phrase, because no one can foretell the future with any degree of accuracy. )

Quote:
He said it in no uncertain terms, with no caveats or conditions (see my quote below).
Well, the last sentence of what you quoted says, "We have no plans to stop supporting..." As I pointed out, their plans have changed.
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Ryan F
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Old April 7th, 2020, 11:10 AM
We understand that there is definitely some frustration in regards to the slower pacing of the Hero Lab Classic releases and updates but I want to restate it here since there are still some folks who apparently have the impression that we are done working on and supporting Hero Lab Classic.

Hero Lab Classic is still supported and being regularly worked on and updated, you very well may have noticed a version update that released in the last few weeks with some bug fixes and tweaks. We also have more updates and datasets that are going to be coming down the pipeline pretty soon that have been highly anticipated.

While it's true that much of the staff is not actively working on Hero Lab Classic projects at the moment that does not mean we've abandoned it. I wish I could give you more information about when we will be able to release X or Y, but I'm afraid that's not possible, precisely because of some hard-learned lessons over the years where we overestimated the speed at which we can functionally get some things done and this did a disservice to ourselves and the users as well by building up an expectation that we, unfortunately, weren't able to meet.

Much like Rob said before, Hero Lab Classic has been our bread and butter for a very long time now and we have no intentions, incentives to, or plans to abandon it even after we have finished rounding off the items on our punch-list for data packages/features that need to be completed for the supported systems.

It's going to continue to see bug fixes, tweaks and improvements well into the future and our plans have NOT changed in regards to this.

Last edited by Ryan F; April 7th, 2020 at 11:13 AM.
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Maidhc O Casain
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Old April 7th, 2020, 02:47 PM
That's great to hear, thanks Ryan. Robb said it over in the HLO forums, but I'm very happy to hear it here in the HLC forums as well! I'm looking forward to seeing what comes out.
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